Why do people need a backup?

EricTheWeary

I have had more limited gigging experience than many on here but it has included my valve amp going ( not just a valve), the singer's amp going ( not just a valve) and two bassist's solid state amps ( Trace Elliot just a fuse fixed with fag packet foil [ not my idea!], Ashdown - mystery crap) and a powered monitor ( something cost £130 to fix, not my money though).You do need a way to get to the end of a gig. To some extent this may be about cheaper/ less reliable amps but not entirely. Indeed, the singer's Peavey went down first gig after a pro service.

ICBM

EricTheWeary said:

Trace Elliot just a fuse fixed with fag packet foil [ not my idea!]

The worrying thing about this is that if the result wasn't immediately a much more serious failure, he's now got the idea that this is a good way to "fix" an amp.

EricTheWeary said:

Ashdown - mystery crap

Not really a mystery - just crap.

Have a look at any pro band you see using Ashdown - you'll almost always see two amps on each cab, with one turned off… that's the ready-to-go spare. Very often that rig doubled as well - four amps in total. They need that many just to be safe.

EricTheWeary said:

Indeed, the singer's Peavey went down first gig after a pro service.

Including new valves? This is quite common, unfortunately a lot of people assume that fitting new valves is a good way to ensure they won't fail - actually the reverse is true, brand-new valves have a much higher failure rate than ones that have got through that period. (Known as 'infant mortality'.)

I have to say I'm less of a fan of Peavey's valve amps than their solid-state ones too. Classic 30s in particular really aren't very good, despite their popularity.

hotpickups

The only back up I take is one of those sansamp pedals that Joyo do. It's just to get me through a gig if the worst happens

EricTheWeary

ICBM said:

EricTheWeary said:

Trace Elliot just a fuse fixed with fag packet foil [ not my idea!]

The worrying thing about this is that if the result wasn't immediately a much more serious failure, he's now got the idea that this is a good way to "fix" an amp.

EricTheWeary said:

Ashdown - mystery crap

Not really a mystery - just crap.

Have a look at any pro band you see using Ashdown - you'll almost always see two amps on each cab, with one turned off… that's the ready-to-go spare. Very often that rig doubled as well - four amps in total. They need that many just to be safe.

EricTheWeary said:

Indeed, the singer's Peavey went down first gig after a pro service.

Including new valves? This is quite common, unfortunately a lot of people assume that fitting new valves is a good way to ensure they won't fail - actually the reverse is true, brand-new valves have a much higher failure rate than ones that have got through that period. (Known as 'infant mortality'.)

I have to say I'm less of a fan of Peavey's valve amps than their solid-state ones too. Classic 30s in particular really aren't very good, despite their popularity.

The bassist with the Trace Elliot had a stroke not long after and can't play anymore. Smoking wasn't good for his amp and probably didn't help his health either.

Yes, the current bassist's Ashdown combo is very unreliable and weighs a sodding ton ( he can't travel to gigs without asking a neighbour to help him get it in the car) although it sounds magnificently fat. 

JayGee

Because we can. Usable kit is a lot more affordable than it used to be so, most of us have our own transport and swapping in a (hopefully) working amp for a non-working one is a lot less stressful for most of us than on-stage fault finding...

IvisonGuitars

timmysoft;76565" said:

Are amps more unreliable these days, I toured for 9 years without a spare amp.
- 2 years Laney Vc50
- 1 year Laney lionheart 20h
- 2 years Marshall dsl100
- 1 year Marshall jcm900 4100
- 2 years Laney GH50l
- 1 year Laney vc30

In that time I blew one fuse on the Laney Gh, other than that, no issues! This was van touring too, so the amps weren't treated with much respect, plus most of the amps would have done 2-3 rehearsals a week, every week.

So why are all your amps so unreliable? TELL ME!!!

But you've had 6 amps in 9 years! If you change them this frequently, chances are they WON'T ever let you down!

If you'd have done 9 years with just the DSL100, I think this thread would be very different! ;-)

John_A

I've never had an amp fail on me but carry a EHX Magnum 44 just in case, the other guitarist in the band had to use it one as his DR Z blew a valve and he didn't have spares with him.

mykewright

When I was gigging my bass rig consisted of a head and two cabs. I also picked up a spare bass head for under £100 on Ebay. If the head and one cab failed I could at least complete the gig, but thankfully never had any problems with the main rig.

Pete24v

From my earliest days of gigging using pretty much laney gear (gh50, V30, vh100) I never used a backup amp. When I bought a Dr. Z MAZ 38 Reverb all that had to change, fuses and valves were popping every other gig, so I took out a spare amp.

Since swapping to the Carol Ann, no spare amp has gone to the gigs.. But I do carry a Digitech pedal with a mixer out that it pretty good straight into the desk. Never used it, but I've tried it in sound check and it would definitely get my by.

Catthan

'cause I can't just go to the bride (or worst, her parents) and say "sorry luv, but a valve blew and took a grid resistor with it..; it's gonna be spotify for the rest of the night"

backup doesn't mean a copy of #1 gear though. 

For year my backup was a crate powerblock which I never had to use and it always stays in the care.

I think some people, possibly here too, are using amplifire as back up.

professorben

My only let down at a gig was my Peavey JSX.
a microphone stand got knocked over and sheared off the on/off toggle switch.... In the off position.
Apart from that, any gig failures have been string breaks.

professorben

I should also add that my 11rack.
Which is handling reverb only these days has a copy of each sound on my pedalboard and amp/cab patch.
Just in case.

crunchman

I have a Joyo/Harley Benton AC Tone in my bag so I could take that out into the PA.  I've never had an amp die on me but I have had valves go bad on me.  I normally carry spare valves with me.

Fiftyshadesofjay

martinw;1091135" said:

Fiftyshadesofjay said:

A lot of amps aren't inherently unreliable. Valves definitely are though.





No, they're not.

If that's the case, why do manufacturers normally give you at least one year (normally more) warranty on an amplifier but typically only three months for valves?

martinw

Because they buy in cheap valves, don't test or burn them in properly, and don't fully understand the implications of selling an older technology like valves. They're geared up for the modern approach: build cheap, replace rather than repair, then to landfill.
If they had a proper service network, it wouldn't be a problem for them, but that's not going to happen in today's have it all now throwaway society.
In nearly 10 years of doing this, I can honestly say that I've had almost no failures within warranty in the new valves I've fitted to builds and repairs; Certainly no more than other random component failures that can happen to anything....I've had 2 failures of silicon diodes for instance.
A significant number of the faults I get to fix in the repair side of my business are common to both valve and SS amps: pots, jacks, switches etc. Add to that all the output and driver transistors I replace in SS amps, and the ones I don't repair because the cost outweighs their value.
Further to that, and adding to the OP's experience, I regularly service decades old valve amps, still going strong.
I have a nearly 60 year old valve radio in my kitchen. I can't prove it, but I think that all but one of its valves are original, going by their date codes.
Valves are not fit and forget, last forever 100% reliable of course, but to say they are unreliable misunderstands the context of the technology. They are easy to access and replace, and come from a time when changing a valve was not considered a catastrophe in the way that a SS blowing up would be.
That's my take on it!

earwighoney

martinw said:

Because they buy in cheap valves, don't test or burn them in properly, and don't fully understand the implications of selling an older technology like valves. They're geared up for the modern approach: build cheap, replace rather than repair, then to landfill.
If they had a proper service network, it wouldn't be a problem for them, but that's not going to happen in today's have it all now throwaway society.
In nearly 10 years of doing this, I can honestly say that I've had almost no failures within warranty in the new valves I've fitted to builds and repairs; Certainly no more than other random component failures that can happen to anything....I've had 2 failures of silicon diodes for instance.
A significant number of the faults I get to fix in the repair side of my business are common to both valve and SS amps: pots, jacks, switches etc. Add to that all the output and driver transistors I replace in SS amps, and the ones I don't repair because the cost outweighs their value.
Further to that, and adding to the OP's experience, I regularly service decades old valve amps, still going strong.
I have a nearly 60 year old valve radio in my kitchen. I can't prove it, but I think that all but one of its valves are original, going by their date codes.
Valves are not fit and forget, last forever 100% reliable of course, but to say they are unreliable misunderstands the context of the technology. They are easy to access and replace, and come from a time when changing a valve was not considered a catastrophe in the way that a SS blowing up would be.
That's my take on it!

A really informative reply, thanks Martin.  Without going too off topic in context to something mentioned above, what makes some amps less conomically viable to repair than others? 

I've never really understood the fear of amps failing in a gig.  All equipment can fail during a gig, be it instruments or amps (and so on).  If something which is well maintained/reliable opposed to something which has been badly maintained or is an unreliable piece of equipment, then I'd have no worries to gig it without a spare.  

Sassafras

I can understand people playing it safe and taking a back-up amp but why do so many think that an Orange Micro Terror is the answer?

I'd rather the gig was cancelled than have to listen to one of those.

ICBM

Sassafras said:

I can understand people playing it safe and taking a back-up amp but why do so many think that an Orange Micro Terror is the answer?

I'd rather the gig was cancelled than have to listen to one of those.

I know I've said this before but I would rather DI a Boss DS-1 than use a Micro Terror .

Actually if the desk has powerful enough EQ, DI'ing a distortion pedal - even one with no speaker emulation - will get you by in the last resort.

I know I've also said this before, but if you need a spare head, an old solid-state PA amp makes an excellent backup, even if it's not the smallest and lightest option. But they are cheap, reliable and sound at least OK.

Danny1969

I took a dark terror to a gig when my ht5 started playing up. I plugged it in, listened and turned it off. I really didn't expect it to sound as bad as it did ...
.
iPhone - amplitude - Irig into pa is one last ditch option

ICBM

Danny1969 said:

I took a dark terror to a gig when my ht5 started playing up. I plugged it in, listened and turned it off. I really didn't expect it to sound as bad as it did ...

Did you also have the odd impression that you could still 'hear' it afterwards? I find that with the Micro Terror, although I haven't tried the Dark one. (Thankfully.) The sound somehow drills itself right into my brain. It literally makes my ears itch when it's actually in use.