Gibson SG identification required...

Gadget

Okay, so I know this would be easier with a picture of the actual guitar, but I'm afraid I don't have one, sorry. So anyway....

Today I came across a guitar described as a "1970-2 Gibson SG Junior, made in Kalamazoo" in a local secondhand shop. It was cable-tied to the wall (literally!) so I couldn't fully inspect it and didn't have time to ask the shop assistant to get it down.

It looked most like the pic below, in that it had a black half-moon control plate, with a jack and two knobs on it. It was finished in solid black with quite a lot of crazing in the lacquer. It had a single gold-covered humbucker (poss replacement from a P90?) and rather shiny chrome tuners, which looked like a recent addition. It had no pickguard and a separate stop bar / bridge (and each saddle had two or three grooves cut into it).

I've done the obvious Googling, but can't seem to pin it down. Maybe an SG-1 / 2 / 3 or SG-100, but it didn't look quite like any I've looked-up. Any ideas?

ESchap

It looks like their description is correct, early 70's SG Junior, except its been modded over the years, including a re-finished.

If you are interested in it, make sure that its structurally sound, around the headstock obviously, but also around the neck body joint, any hairline cracks etc. in that area can be bad news.  Unfortuanbtely the black refinish may hide some old scars.

andyoz

Yeah, sounds like a modified 1971 SG-1?

https://reverb.com/item/787064-gibson-sg-1-1971

The half moon control plate does date it to the early 70's.  Gibson did it for about as year to save costs as it meant all the controls could be installed from the 'front' of the guitar so it didn't have to be turned around as much on the production line.

They also stopped beveling the horn cutouts to save costs and that sort of ruins the SG shape IMO.

How much is it as could be a useful little rock machine?

Nitefly

With that control plate, I'd say SG I.  The one in your pic looks like the original mini-humbucker has been replaced by a P90.

guitars4you

Nitefly said:

With that control plate, I'd say SG I.  The one in your pic looks like the original mini-humbucker has been replaced by a P90.

I'd echo those thoughts with that control plate - Often seen as a dark period for Gibson but at the right price I'm sure it will be fine

How much is it and how well does it play will certainly be defining points

Skipped

Even though the batwing late sixties Gibson SGs survived for a couple of years, after Norlin took over (there are 1971 examples if you look hard) it seems very unlikely to me that anyone would disguise an SG Junior by adding the (arguably) ugly control plate from a cheaper, slightly later guitar.

And so this is almost certainly the very budget SG1 or 100, even if slightly modded. I hate the next bit.....judging this model which I know and remember well......because some people reading this will have one that they love. So I will just say that a mid sixties to '71 SG Junior (same as the Live at Leeds guitar but with a single P90) was a very nice guitar, of very much higher quality (IMO) than the budget SG 1.

Gadget

Thanks guys. Modified SG-1 seems probable then.

It's up for £499,

Skipped

Well at least it is not crazy money.

At this point I usually say: Why do you want one? Sorry about that.
If you were born in 1971 or feel nostaligia for the period - play it and see.
But otherwise.....less money (350 to 400) gives you a choice of 100 different Sg Specials from the past 30 years and I am certain that 95 of them will be a better guitar from any reasonable point of view (playability, sound, materials, build quality).

Budget ranges can be great. I think the Gibson budget ranges in the 50's and 60's (inc Melody Maker) were better conceived than they were under Norlin.

guitars4you

I'm not sure I would pay £499 for it based on the re-fin and mods - It's a players grade guitar and with a  good re-fret I'm sure it will be fine with those mods - but feel £300-400 more realistic - just my gut feeling

But like wise with a good £200/250 refret and the existing mods then fora  total of £500/550 you should have a pretty decent gig able SG with some old mojo about it

Gadget

I was just intrigued really. Not the usual £79.99 no-name-strat-a-like you find in these places.

It looks like it's got a bit of mojo, but then it could just be trashed... >:D<

I'd be intrigued to give it a proper try at home and I reckon I could get the price down to ~£400, but that's still a lot of cash if the thing is crap (as you say, there are modern options for similar money).

I would love to know what the pickup is.

Moss

Gadget said:

I was just intrigued really. Not the usual £79.99 no-name-strat-a-like you find in these places.

It looks like it's got a bit of mojo, but then it could just be trashed... >:D<

I'd be intrigued to give it a proper try at home and I reckon I could get the price down to ~£400, but that's still a lot of cash if the thing is crap (as you say, there are modern options for similar money).

I would love to know what the pickup is.

You could probably sell it to a vintage guitar shop for about the same if you don't like it

andyoz

Have to say the one you showed as example photo in your OP is growing on me. Little beastie.

HarrySeven

@Gadget - thread resurrection!

And it's still there...

FYI for those not from round 'ere, the shop it's in is a low-rent version of Cash Converters and they aren't keen re. budging on price. Most of the guitar-related stock seems to have been there forever, with a few odd exceptions.

I had it off the wall some time ago and it is a bit of a wreck - and heavily modified (non-original finish, pickup, tailpiece, bridge and Gotoh machine heads).

IIRC (this was around a year ago!), there was something not right with the way the tailpiece was sitting and tuning wasn't stable. Also, there was evidence of filler here and there - not readily visible in the pics, but certainly around one of the the bridge studs.

Gadget

But apart from that, it's great!...

Joking apart though, as you say, some (several) things don't feel right about it.

At best it's had a hard life and needed some running repairs and replacement parts along the way. At worst, it's an unusable wreck not worth half that cash.

HarrySeven

@Gadget - Indeed! I've got further close-up pics of some of the dodgier areas.

Personally - without forensic scrutiny - I would have thought £250-£300 tops. It's not like it was a hugely desirable guitar in the first place...which is why it's been cable-tied to their wall for over a year.

NB. The staff in that particular emporium freely admit that they 'know nothing' about guitars - other than typing the manufacturers name into eBay - they rely on a third party for valuations/information.

Funkfingers

The vintage Gotoh 'heads are probably the most valuable parts of that SG.

WezV

Funkfingers said:

The vintage Gotoh 'heads are probably the most valuable parts of that SG.

Yeah, why don't we see that style these days!!  Modern tuners with a vintage footprint 

rico

Everything about that looks bad. Is there even s degree of break angle at the bridge? 

stickyfiddle

I quite like that. Stick a P90 on it and use it for slide...?

500 is definitely too much though!

ICBM

Given that someone I know paid £900 for a SG200 recently, that price starts to look only silly, as opposed to completely ridiculous.

But it's still silly.

Gadget

HarrySeven said:

@Gadget - Indeed! I've got further close-up pics of some of the dodgier areas.

Personally - without forensic scrutiny - I would have thought £250-£300 tops. It's not like it was a hugely desirable guitar in the first place...which is why it's been cable-tied to their wall for over a year.

NB. The staff in that particular emporium freely admit that they 'know nothing' about guitars - other than typing the manufacturers name into eBay - they rely on a third party for valuations/information.

Even I didn't manage to definitively pin-down the precise model - perhaps because it's been modded so much.