Did Corbyn intentionally not support Remain properly, or is he not very good at politics?

ToneControl

I can't tell if it was a passive-aggressive response to being compelled to support remain,

or if he can't do subtle politics

TheMarlin

He's like every other politician. A puppet.

Axe_meister

He was waiting for the tories to tear themselves apart and did not think that leave would win. So just sat back and left them to it. Alas it back fires on him.

ICBM

Both. What he's shown is that although being able to balance different views is intellectually correct because things are rarely black and white, you can't carry that through into leading a campaign - it doesn't work, it's like trying to drive a car where the wheels steer in opposite directions at the same time.

Drew_TNBD

Reports on the BBC yesterday that there was deliberate sabotage.

chillidoggy

ICBM said:

Both. What he's shown is that although being able to balance different views is intellectually correct because things are rarely black and white, you can't carry that through into leading a campaign - it doesn't work, it's like trying to drive a car where the wheels steer in opposite directions at the same time.

Which will end up in a car crash.

ICBM

chillidoggy said:

Which will end up in a car crash.

Otherwise known as the current state of the Labour Party…

The problem is who to replace him with. Another New Labour muppet? None of the other candidates last time were worth even considering, which is why Corbyn won - if there had been even one credible mainstream contender we wouldn't be here now.

And Hilary Benn says he won't stand. Who else is there?

Bogwhoppit

Drew_fx said:

Reports on the BBC yesterday that there was deliberate sabotage.

Whilst I can well believe that was true. I don't believe much that comes out of 'Bias Bias Corp'. You can almost see the tears running down the TV screen when BBC is selected.

RobDavies

Stephen Kinnock?

I'd like to vote Labour but Corbyn is unelectable. He's let the party down by his apparent lack of conviction to the Remain campaign.

Traditional Labour strongholds like Wales and Newcastle votes to leave - the labour leader should have been convincing them that the correct vote was to stay in the EU.

Although hindsight is clearly a wonderful thing....

Bogwhoppit

I initially supported the rise of Corbyn. I admit I was wrong, so wrong I was double wrong.

The conservatives have had so many open goals during this term, and where was Corbyn to take advantage of it. No effective  opposition means Corbyn has got to go, and fast.

Fretwired

ToneControl said:

I can't tell if it was a passive-aggressive response to being compelled to support remain,

or if he can't do subtle politics

A number of issues. He didn't want to be seen on the same platform as Cameron (who would) - Labour worked with the Tories in the Scottish referendum and it damaged them. I also think he worked out pretty quickly that by supporting Remain too aggressively he'd be out of step with a lot of working class voters in Labour's heartlands in the Midlands and north (feedback from MPs knocking on doors). He has also campaigned his whole life against the creep of the EU and being a principled man found it difficult to do a Boris and do a volte-face.

Len McCluskey, Labour's union paymaster, also came out saying the EU had depressed wages and opportunities for working people. Old Labour has always had a mistrust of the EU which is sees as big business friendly.

I like the guy.

PolarityMan

Those options aren't mutually exclusive.

iseverynamegone

Corbyn is about the only honest politician we have.

Axe_meister

There is a massive vacuum at the centre of UK politics at the moment.

Voters such as myself who tend to vote on policy rather than political allegiance really have nowhere

to go.

The Tories are likely to go off further to the right, the Labour are shooting off to the left.

I don't trust the far right with social justice and I don't trust the left with the economy.

Labour needs to re-occupy the centre ground if they want to get gain power, especially in times

of economic turmoil we will have ahead.

Or will we see a massive split of the labour like in the SNP days, merging with the remnants of the Lib Dems, maybe even a few right of centre tories joining their ranks?

equalsql

iseverynamegone said:

Corbyn is about the only honest politician we have.

I tend to agree. He won't play the media game so they all get their panties in a twist as they are not used to dealing with a party leader who isn't a blatant self publicist. All the cabinet members that are resigning come across as petulant toddlers spitting out their dummies. I think he's played a much smarter game than people give him credit for. He certainly won't get tarred for being on the 'wrong side' .

Softly, softly catchee monkey.

Fretwired

Mr and Mrs Cameron signed a new mortgage a bought a house two weeks ago. Did he realise he was going to lose? Might explain Corbyn's inactivity as well.

Fretwired

Axe_meister said:

There is a massive vacuum at the centre of UK politics at the moment.

Voters such as myself who tend to vote on policy rather than political allegiance really have nowhere

to go.

The Tories are likely to go off further to the right, the Labour are shooting off to the left.

I don't trust the far right with social justice and I don't trust the left with the economy.

Labour needs to re-occupy the centre ground if they want to get gain power, especially in times

of economic turmoil we will have ahead.

Or will we see a massive split of the labour like in the SNP days, merging with the remnants of the Lib Dems, maybe even a few right of centre tories joining their ranks?

The current Tories aren't right wing. Cameron is more of a Liberal - living wage, raising personal allowances to take poorer workers out of the tax system, more cash for the NHS. Some daft ideas on which U-turns were done - NHS reform and disability benefits. If the Tories go right they will be unelectable.

If Boris gets elected he'll work out there are disenchanted Labour voters who used to vote for Thatcher and move the parties policies accordingly. He won two terms as mayor in Labour London. If May gets elected the Tories will struggle. I can't stand her, or her policies or stance on the Human Rights Act so won't vote for her even if she tries to bribe me with tax cuts. A nasty divisive woman.

All Corbyn actually needs are some policies. People actually like him as he's not a shouty rant politician. But remember governments lose elections, oppositions don't win them and its still a long way off to the next general election. Corbyn's only been leader for five minutes. He deserves more time.

And the next two years will be about the EU - prepare to be bored.

ToneControl

ICBM said:

chillidoggy said:

Which will end up in a car crash.

Otherwise known as the current state of the Labour Party…

The problem is who to replace him with. Another New Labour muppet? None of the other candidates last time were worth even considering, which is why Corbyn won - if there had been even one credible mainstream contender we wouldn't be here now.

And Hilary Benn says he won't stand. Who else is there?

I think Corbyn's youthful support will have dropped with his contribution to Brexit and general poor performance

I'd think that someone like Chuka Umunna, Benn could get votes from the old and new labour supporters

Not the polished ones like Cooper or Burnham though

Maynehead

Maybe he's just too honest to be a politician?

ToneControl

Maynehead said:

Maybe he's just too honest to be a politician?

I don't think he's all that honest.

I'd trust Tony Benn or Clare Short far more

I also think he's too thick, I really think he doesn't understand a lot of what is happening

scrumhalf

Corbyn is stuck in the past, it's like listening to some of the student politicians of my youth.