Did Corbyn intentionally not support Remain properly, or is he not very good at politics?

siremoon

chillidoggy said:

According to Paddy Power, May is 5/2, Boris at 4/6 and Gove at 9/2.

Shame we can't have Boris as PM, and let May off the leash for any negotiation.

That wouldn't be bad actually.  Could still happen.  If Boris is PM he could make May Foreign Secretary

shrinkwrap

freakboy1610 said:

Meanwhile, Diane Abbott has started a leave Corbyn alone petition.

Et tu Diane? Looks like he's going to be left on his own without any help from Ms Abbott.

digitalscream

Well, this seems relevant to the thread title...

chillidoggy

shrinkwrap said:

freakboy1610 said:

Meanwhile, Diane Abbott has started a leave Corbyn alone petition.

Et tu Diane? Looks like he's going to be left on his own without any help from Ms Abbott.

They should ride off into the north Islington sunset together like a pair of aging cowboys bearded hipsters.

TTony

As of 10 minutes ago, 23 out of 31 members of the Shadow Cabinet had resigned (incl Mr Benn).  

Given that all of them were appointed by Corbyn within the last 9mths, so were - presumably - people whose opinions were broadly aligned with his, that's quite a turnabout.

It's been a while since the Labour Party has been this united.

paulmapp8306

I want Corbyn to stay so badly.  That was we'd never have a bankrupt country that Labour always leads us to.

Dont get me wrong - idealistically I agree with most of Labours ideals (except the far left and unions - though the latter is a blinkin big one), but it has to be "If we can afford them" and not "borrow borrow borrow at any cost to implement our ideals".  If there was a leader, and a plan from labour to do that - Id vote for them, but it will never happen as there mostly ideologists with their heads in the clouds not leaders with their feet on the ground.

That said - Id still take Labour leading us into bankruptcy than having anything to do with that Scottish women...... (I love the scottish - just not her).

Chalky

We are a long long way from bankruptcy.

paulmapp8306

WE are now - we wernt with Labour in control.

ToneControl

earwighoney said:

ToneControl said:

I don't think he's all that honest.

I'd trust Tony Benn or Clare Short far more

Erm, you do know Tony Benn is dead? 

He'd still be a better leader than most, even if the zombie resurrection fails. 

just giving examples of people I would trust to be honest

lloyd

ToneControl said:

earwighoney said:

ToneControl said:

I don't think he's all that honest.

I'd trust Tony Benn or Clare Short far more

Erm, you do know Tony Benn is dead? 

He'd still be a better leader than most, even if the zombie resurrection fails. 

just giving examples of people I would trust to be honest

You can trust dead politicians slightly more than alive ones.

Fretwired

TTony said:

As of 10 minutes ago, 23 out of 31 members of the Shadow Cabinet had resigned (incl Mr Benn).  

Given that all of them were appointed by Corbyn within the last 9mths, so were - presumably - people whose opinions were broadly aligned with his, that's quite a turnabout.

It's been a while since the Labour Party has been this united.

Not really. Many of those faces were appointed to keep some unity. They may find their plan has back fired as Unite, the Labour's paymaster, is threatening to get them all deselected and end their political careers. The danger here is Corbyn looks like Unite's puppet.

KKJale

I  read Corbyn's main pro-Remain appeal weeks ago and thought it was clear, balanced and unequivocal. 

But who remembers that? The press want to pick his bones. The party chancers are jumping ship. 

To mis-quote Groucho Marx, I'm not sure I want a party leader who can unite all sides of this party as a party leader. 

jpfamps

Chalky said:

digitalscream;1128033" said:

Adding to his own problems, Corbyn is now refusing to tell anyone which way he voted. I think that's pretty much the end of it - for a guy whose public image relies on honesty, even the whiff of a possibility that he was in the Remain camp while secretly voting Leave means he's basically done.

The Tory goal was wide open from Friday morning but Corbyn completely failed to seize the opportunity, even to just make some statesman-like comments. Complete failure.

Apparently the press were after quotes on Friday morning at 6.00 am and Corbyn was still in bed.

Teetonetal

jpfamps;1128406" said:

Chalky said:

digitalscream;1128033" said:Adding to his own problems, Corbyn is now refusing to tell anyone which way he voted. I think that's pretty much the end of it - for a guy whose public image relies on honesty, even the whiff of a possibility that he was in the Remain camp while secretly voting Leave means he's basically done.

The Tory goal was wide open from Friday morning but Corbyn completely failed to seize the opportunity, even to just make some statesman-like comments. Complete failure.





Apparently the press were after quotes on Friday morning at 6.00 am and Corbyn was still in bed.

I think the world would be better if more politicians stayed in bed. Preferably their own.

digitalscream

I'm just catching up with the day's news (had a long night working last night, so a short day). If I'm reading this right, the Labour Remain MPs are squarely blaming Corbyn's leadership (or lack thereof) for losing the referendum, instead of blaming the Tories.

That seems like enough of a turnaround to guarantee his exit to me. Also, I had to go outside to check that the sky was still in its intended position.

TTony

The strange thing is, I *know* this is all a dream, but it all feels like it's really happenning.

Next thing you know, England will lose to Iceland in the Euro Championships!!

LOLz.

ICBM

Worse than his performance in the referendum - the result may or may not be his fault (I think it was probably a contributing factor) - it's exposed that he just isn't a very good leader. He's a good chairman of a committee probably - he can simultaneously accommodate opposing views and arrive at a considered compromise - but he's poor at decision-making. And in spite of his claim of being able to tolerate dissent he's sacked probably his most capable minister for criticising his leadership.

It's very sad really. I genuinely think he was the best candidate out of the four who stood - and I still do - and that he had a real opportunity to make the Labour Party something worthwhile again, instead of New Labour's Tories with red ties. I don't like the idea of him being forced out by the type of Westminster-circus MPs who got Labour into the position it's in today, but I think that's more about his leadership than his politics, and I can see why they feel they have to do it.

If he does lose a vote of confidence and there's a contest in which he stands, he will win again because he is overwhelmingly supported by the membership, but at the expense of very likely splitting the party and making the more left-wing part of it politically irrelevant. Or quite possibly both parts.

Axe_meister

The problem is a socialist ideology does not really work in a global economy. It requires a fairly closed system you can control.
We will never be able to compete with China/India if we have high taxes, high wages for unskilled/low skilled work.
Labour need to move back to the center, unfortunately most labour members (outside of the unions) tend to be middle class often academic/creatives with no real understanding of how economies work.
They have read Marx and that is their bible (god I'm describing my parents)

Evilmags

Corbyn is a complete fucking idiot. The only MP in his party who was aggressively out was Gisela Stuart. His utter failure to come close to grasping his brief is beyond ridicule.

The only remain politicians who came out of this as competent are Sturgeon and Ruth Davidson. Cameron did what he could.

Osborne, for all his fear-mongering, is already asking for Foreign Secretary under Johnson/Gove , 

quarky

If Corbyn is true "labour", he should be in touch with the needs of the "labour" working class. I suspect he actually is, which is why he was so lukewarm about leave/remain. It is difficult for anyone, but he should have backed leave and gone against large swathes of his party (but not against the traditional support perhaps), or gone all out for remain to appease them. He didn't a poor job of the latter, which perhaps only made some people think he favoured the former.