VW Tiguans Yay or Nay?

fretmeister

I would very much like a small-ish 4x4.

Some of the local roads that I use in winter become impossible for a while every year. There is always another way round of course - but the most affected road / destination requires a 15 mile detour. 

Sporky

The Panda 4x4 is jolly capable on the right tyres.

Gassage

Just found a nice Q5 3.0 - now that I like.

fretmeister

Sporky said:

The Panda 4x4 is jolly capable on the right tyres.

Alas I'd never get a bass hard case in the boot

Sporky

Back seats down, front passenger seat flat?

paul_c2

Sporky said:

paul_c2 said:

4x4s are basically pointless unless you are in the 1% of people who might actually need one

I disagree. When I bought my first Yeti I test drove it and a FWD car with the same engine; the FWD one scrabbled out of junctions whereas the Yeti just went. Much safer. The better traction also helps if you tow. The extra ground clearance means no scrapes over the badly made forest tracks around here - and I'm only in Surrey (though I'll happily concede that a FWD one would deal with that perfectly well).

paul_c2 said:

When the big freeze came a number of years ago, 4x4s caused as many problems as they solved because inexperienced people continued to use closed roads, then got stuck, etc etc thinking their 4x4 is invincible.

That's an argument against people who are poor drivers, not against 4x4s. In the last big freeze I got home when most of the people in my office didn't.

paul_c2 said:

A regular 4x4 is no better than any other car when braking anyway - all cars use all their wheels during braking for corners etc. 

But considerably better at cornering. Quite often the weight balance is better in a 4x4, and the extra transmission stuff means a lower centre of gravity.

paul_c2 said:

And, the vast majority of 4x4s have unsuitable tyres for actual off road situations.

Four wheel drive isn't just for offroading. The Yeti was already better than the FWD car I had before it when it was snowy - more traction and more ground clearance, whereas the car dug itself into the snow, or rode up, lifted its front wheels and couldn't go anywhere. With winter tyres as well the Yeti was pretty much unstoppable, except with the brakes, which stopped it very nicely.

Winter tyres make more difference than four wheel drive, but four wheel drive is a genuine improvement when the roads are a bit damp and slippery.

There's an argument for RWD there, or higher ground clearance, but not the actual 4WD. Yes agree, its a lot about how to drive in poor traction conditions, rather than the equipment available - people in the UK aren't taught how to deal with this, and many don't have a clue regarding skidding, how to correct them, when to not venture out instead of trying, etc etc. Having a 4x4 simply means they can get away with poor driving on certain conditions, before getting stuck.

It depends what you compare against - a (for example) Land Rover Discovery will corner worse than a properly driven RWD car in all but the poorest conditions.

A lot is about having the correct tyres.

Yes, for towing, 4wd is a big advantage in some situations.

joneve

Gassage said:

Just found a nice Q5 3.0 - now that I like.

Yep, nice cars. Expensive though. Even second hand, unless you get one with ridiculously high mileage. 

fretmeister

Sporky said:

Back seats down, front passenger seat flat?

My musical insurance requires instruments to be entirely hidden in the boot. 

I expect I'll be getting a Mondeo estate with 100K on it.

joneve

fretmeister said:

Sporky said:

Back seats down, front passenger seat flat?

My musical insurance requires instruments to be entirely hidden in the boot. 

I expect I'll be getting a Mondeo estate with 100K on it.

The MK4 mondeos are ace! 

Ours ahad 104k on when we got rid of it, and save for the back box bracket being corroded, was still going strong. Was a bit sad to see it go.

Sporky

paul_c2 said:

It depends what you compare against - a (for example) Land Rover Discovery will corner worse than a properly driven RWD car in all but the poorest conditions.

I think that's probably fair - also you may have been talking about Discos and other big 4x4s, whereas I was thinking about little crossovers and suchlike. I'd still rather have all four wheels driven given the option - if I get a choice my next car will probably be a four wheel drive estate.

xSkarloey

Sporky said:

Skarloey said:

Tiguans are for people not savvy enough to realise a Golf in most of its versions is the best VW. 

What about people not savvy enough to realise that the Tiggy is built on the same platform as the Golf?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group_A_platform#A5_.28PQ35.29

Budgie said:

Dunno if it's relevant but I had to tow one off a beach once with me Disco. It was totally stuck.

I once towed a Disco out of a ditch with my Yeti.

Same platform, different cars. As some motoring journos like pointing out, VW put their best bods and most R+D into the Golf to make it the best all round package because it's the mainstay of the range. 

And of course  as other consumer motoring writers like to say, Seat Leon is also a MQB based Golf a like for less wonga. 

paul_c2

Sporky said:

paul_c2 said:

It depends what you compare against - a (for example) Land Rover Discovery will corner worse than a properly driven RWD car in all but the poorest conditions.

I think that's probably fair - also you may have been talking about Discos and other big 4x4s, whereas I was thinking about little crossovers and suchlike. I'd still rather have all four wheels driven given the option - if I get a choice my next car will probably be a four wheel drive estate.

Have you ever driven a 4WD car fast enough into a corner to properly oversteer it? It is a distinctly different experience than a RWD car, less fun, probably safer for the majority of real-life situations. However it will tend to grip for longer, so when loss of control does occur, it will be at a faster speed. Of course this argument could conclude either way - you could say skidding off a road at a lower speed is safer than skidding off at high speed. Or you could say that completing the corner is safer than skidding off.

Budgie

I don't find 4x4s to be as pointless as sports cars tbh. You tend to get loads of utility with most 4x4s. I use mine for towing and launching a boat, often on a beach. Until recently for towing a mini digger or Ifor Williams trailer. They are great in snow and ice. If you go camping, the load space is great and it accommodates a large dog. Apart from the towing and boat launching, the other stuff is covered by a decent sized estate. I guess you either need 4x4 or you don't. You may just like the elevated driving position of course. They are also great on muddy festival fields. 

stickyfiddle

I don't think I've ever seen an Audi Q5 parked remotely well. 

My Golf is excellent. You'd easily get a dog in the boot. As long as it wasn't a really really big dog.

Sporky

paul_c2 said:

Have you ever driven a 4WD car fast enough into a corner to properly oversteer it?

It was nigh-on impossible to get the Yeti to break grip except in the snow, and then the electronics did a lot of the work. You could drift it around snowy roundabouts at quite low speeds though - under 10mph, certainly - looking like a rally champion and/or utter twit (observer's choice).

paul_c2 said:

 Or you could say that completing the corner is safer than skidding off. 

Definitely that, for me. I don't doubt that there are some people in 4x4s who get that feeling of invincibility, but I don't think it applies to most.

joneve

stickyfiddle said:

I don't think I've ever seen an Audi Q5 parked remotely well. 

My Golf is excellent. You'd easily get a dog in the boot. As long as it wasn't a really really big dog.

Our issue when changing cars was we had a mondeo before, so it didn't matter what you had, it would fit.

so we didn't want to down size too much...plus we crate our dog in the boot for safety, so we needed a big enough boot for this, which the golf certainly wouldn't have. 

But I agree - we can get our springer comfortably in the boot of a Fiesta. 

Gassage

stickyfiddle said:

I don't think I've ever seen an Audi Q5 parked remotely well. 

My Golf is excellent. You'd easily get a dog in the boot. As long as it wasn't a really really big dog.

Winnie is big. 25" tall at her shoulder.

Here she is last night, reading her Delia Smith DogCook book.

Sporky

joneve said:

we crate our dog in the boot for safety

Yours or the dog's?

We originally had a dog hammock across the back seats, with Sprocket tethered in via her harness, but she was strong enough to stretch the tether enough to make sure our ears were clean. This proved rather distracting. I think she's happier in the boot too, she can wind up the people behind us by sticking her tongue out at them.

joneve

Sporky said:

joneve said:

we crate our dog in the boot for safety

Yours or the dog's?

We originally had a dog hammock across the back seats, with Sprocket tethered in via her harness, but she was strong enough to stretch the tether enough to make sure our ears were clean. This proved rather distracting. I think she's happier in the boot too, she can wind up the people behind us by sticking her tongue out at them.

Hers - if we have to brake suddenly she's only going to face plant the crate from about a foot away, rather than flying across the back of the car. Plus she loves her crate in the car and at home. We occasionally have to bring the car crate into the house (i.e. if I'm cleaning the car out or whatever) - which is (a lot) smaller than her house crate (which she no longer gets shut in)...but she'll happily just get in it and have a snooze - despite having about 3 other places she loves to sleep. Weird dog. 

she occasionally sits on our laps or on the front seat if we're going down the road to drop her off at the dog walker/day care, as we don't get above 15mph usually due to morning traffic and we have a seatbelt thingy for her. 

Sporky

Sprocket will NOT get into a crate. It just doesn't happen. She is very hard to move once she's set her feet at the right positions.