Berlin lorry attack

BigBearKris

http://news.sky.com/story/berlin-attacker-anis-amri-pledged-allegiance-to-islamic-state-in-video-10706087

So Daesh after all...

Steffo

Well done to the Italian rookie policeman that nabbed the nutter, and hopefully a speedy recovery to his wounded colleague. I am against firearms but on occasion they have their use it would appear.

earwighoney

Fretwired said:

 Yep .. a Tunisian who was denied asylum but allowed to stay and was known to the police. If this turns out to be an IS attack (as is looking likely) the far right in Germany will generate a shit storm which could have major repercussions. Sad times ..

Well, predictably it was a ISIS attack. 

The shit storm will only get worse.  The media/government lead cover up of the Cologne New Year attacks coupled are going to create some nasty things which I imagine are to come.

Garthy

Posted elsewhere:

Feb 2011: Arrested in Tunisia for armed robbery.

Late Feb 2011: Arrives in Italy claiming to be a minor (he was 19 at the time.) and decides to set fire to the asylum centre. Can't be deported back to Tunisia because he has "the wrong papers,"

Then a jump until;

May 2015: After spending time in six different jails in Sicily, his father warns he could have been radicalised but officials can't find him.

July 2015: Turns up in Freiburg selling drugs.

Feb 2016: Arrives in Berlin to officially apply for asylum.

July 2016: He goes missing again as the police want to question him about a knife attack. They discover he has six aliases.

August 2016: Arrested with false papers trying to get back into Italy.

Then he manages to escape from the Berlin attack by travelling through three European countries despite now being the most wanted man in Europe and the police throughout the continent having at least seven different mug shots of him.


Talk about ticking all the boxes.

Sambostar

I'm just glad we're saying on legal defence fees.

ToneControl

HAL9000 said:

ToneControl said:

HAL9000 said:

ICBM said:

Placidcasual79 said:

Terrible news. So shocking. To think innocent people out doing Christmas shopping and not coming home...... so sad. These tragedies are becoming so common. Its important not to become complacent or desensitised.  

But equally it's important not to let them change our way of life. That's what they want.

But it's already changed our way of life. I can't go to the airport without getting my shoes x-rayed and my aftershave confiscated. I have to have my bags searched at museums and gigs etc. I can't go into town without my every move being recorded on CCTV, and now the Welsh ambulance service wants to be able to check my browsing history.

check your home browsing history?

Yes indeed. Under the proposed 'snoopers charter' there are all sorts of groups that will be able to look at your internet history. Apart from the obvious people such as the police and security services, there are others such as the Food Standards Agency, various ambulance services, etc, erc.

but at present, how would it work, do you have to let them  onto your PCs?

ToneControl

https://www.facebook.com/dalel.benbabaali/posts/10211682000956317

ToneControl

joeyowen said:

A lot of people will prefer to blame someone who isn't white by default. Lack of education 

perhaps they borrowed a razor from Occam, rather than Corbyn

ToneControl

quarky said:

We have discussed this on the board before though, and it isn't just an islam thing. The guy who drove the truck at Nice was (from memory a smoker and drinker) who hardly ever went to worship. If you listen to what most of these terrorists are talking about, it isn't because allah told them to, it is because of their perception of what is going on in the Middle East, when they see children blown to bits by bombs (European bombs in some cases) and no one seems to care. It is because they feel more of connection to those in the ME who are the same religion, than they do with their countryman. To just say it is an islam thing is to miss the point. Islam plays a big part for these people because it simply fills the vacuum that multiculturalism causes.

Religion causes problems
Explain how it is incidental to this



Issued by Daesh:

ICBM

It's not *only* to do with Islam though. Extremist Islam is just a current enabler for a certain type of violent sociopaths, just as revolutionary anarchist communism was in the 70s. It's probably more dangerous because the Red Army Faction and other similar groups didn't promise eternal paradise to their followers in the event of their deaths, and there were only a handful of them really... they still killed quite a lot of people though.

ToneControl

ICBM said:

It's not *only* to do with Islam though. Extremist Islam is just a current enabler for a certain type of violent sociopaths, just as revolutionary anarchist communism was in the 70s. It's probably more dangerous because the Red Army Faction and other similar groups didn't promise eternal paradise to their followers in the event of their deaths, and there were only a handful of them really... they still killed quite a lot of people though.

all true

Evilmags

The biggest death tolls from Islamist inspired violence is other Muslims, and by an awful long way. I would seriously recommend reading the Koran and looking at the history of how the religion expanded. Then you can make your mind up as to whether it is or is not a fundamentally violent belief system. 

ICBM

Evilmags said:

The biggest death tolls from Islamist inspired violence is other Muslims, and by an awful long way. I would seriously recommend reading the Koran and looking at the history of how the religion expanded. Then you can make your mind up as to whether it is or is not a fundamentally violent belief system. 

Also true.

The odd thing is that Christianity, which in its original teachings is a peaceful religion, has been the inspiration and justification for probably at least as much violence, both against non-Christians and between Christian sects. The Crusades, the Spanish Conquest and the Thirty Years War for example, not to mention minor modern ones like Northern Ireland… so I'm not sure how much is the fault of the religion itself (either Christianity or Islam) and how much that of the people who use it for their own violent ends.

quarky

ToneControl said:

quarky said:

We have discussed this on the board before though, and it isn't just an islam thing. The guy who drove the truck at Nice was (from memory a smoker and drinker) who hardly ever went to worship. If you listen to what most of these terrorists are talking about, it isn't because allah told them to, it is because of their perception of what is going on in the Middle East, when they see children blown to bits by bombs (European bombs in some cases) and no one seems to care. It is because they feel more of connection to those in the ME who are the same religion, than they do with their countryman. To just say it is an islam thing is to miss the point. Islam plays a big part for these people because it simply fills the vacuum that multiculturalism causes.

Religion causes problems
Explain how it is incidental to this



Issued by Daesh:

LOL. His words are not in English, so god knows. According to the Internet though, he said:

“My message to crusaders bombing Muslims everyday... Their blood will not go in vain. We are a nation behind them and will take revenge for them,” he said.

Which kind of backs up EXACTLY what I was saying. He is angry at seeing those that he feels a connection to, getting bombed. The answer isn't to bomb them more!

ToneControl

quarky said:

ToneControl said:

quarky said:

We have discussed this on the board before though, and it isn't just an islam thing. The guy who drove the truck at Nice was (from memory a smoker and drinker) who hardly ever went to worship. If you listen to what most of these terrorists are talking about, it isn't because allah told them to, it is because of their perception of what is going on in the Middle East, when they see children blown to bits by bombs (European bombs in some cases) and no one seems to care. It is because they feel more of connection to those in the ME who are the same religion, than they do with their countryman. To just say it is an islam thing is to miss the point. Islam plays a big part for these people because it simply fills the vacuum that multiculturalism causes.

Religion causes problems
Explain how it is incidental to this



Issued by Daesh:

LOL. His words are not in English, so god knows. According to the Internet though, he said:

“My message to crusaders bombing Muslims everyday... Their blood will not go in vain. We are a nation behind them and will take revenge for them,” he said.

Which kind of backs up EXACTLY what I was saying. He is angry at seeing those that he feels a connection to, getting bombed. The answer isn't to bomb them more!

he is wearing allegiance to Daesh

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/berlin-christmas-market-attack-anis-amri-isis-video-pledged-allegiance-milan-suspect-a7492636.html

so, what is the correct approach?
I thought that the USA bombing the genocidal Nazis and Japs in ww2 was probably a rather good idea. POssibly attacking genocidal  regimes is the only legitimate motivation for military action

Are Daesh not genocidal?

quarky

I don't dispute him swearing allegiance to daesh at all.

This is a different kind of war though with a different kind of enemy, at a different time. The Nazi's and Japanese didn't have masses of sympathisers all around the world, and daesh are not (currently) fighting conventional wars with conventional armies (not in quite the same way). I don't have the answers, but as I said before, I would be looking to get these people integrated (so get rid of multiculturalism for a start) into our countries and communities.

As that will take a while though, I would also ask those communities what *they* think should be done. As has been pointed out many times, the vast, vast, vast, vast majority of victims of daesh are not us in the West, but muslims in the Middle East. So give them more say and more control over our response. Otherwise we just continue to play into the hands of terrorist organisations like daesh.

mixolyd

Last I heard, Germany hadn't been bombing anyone.

quarky

I am sure they would consider it to be doing so indirectly.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34927170

mixolyd

Giving Muslims a say in our response is the last thing we should do, there's far too much Islamic influence in our politics already.  As for integrating - the parents of this generation were well integrated, but then came the dollars of Islamist propaganda to brainwash their children and bring out the extremism that is always latent in Islam by virtue of its design.  Our failure is in allowing Islam within our borders when we didn't understand it, how to control or how to reform it.

Muslims don't need to be pacified - in fact they can never be pacified, anger and outrage are Mohammedan virtues, tools to be used against the weak - they need to be helped.  Ignore their anger - they are using it as a cynical tool against the weak secular mind.  They are the first victims of Islam and as part of that they lose their ability to resist Political Islam.  Religious Islam and Political Islam are joined at the hip due to the editing of the Quran and the vast propaganda power of the Imams, Islamist organisations and various regimes.

The only workable solution I see is that proposed by the great Muslim reformer Tarek Fatah: invest millions in supporting the development of a new Islam within the borders of a secular state. Why Israel or India haven't already started this I don't know.  As ever in matters of propaganda and cultural war: follow the money.  We are being outspent in the region of tens of billions of dollars while all of our money goes on fighting terrorism and trying to placate Muslims with political favours - rewarding their anger while the source of the problem goes unchecked