Terry Morgan 59 Reissue

armitaan

I'm desperately looking for deets of that guy who makes hand made exact '86 replicas of these , money and time no object

http://i67.tinypic.com/an214g.jpg

WezV

armitaan said:

I'm desperately looking for deets of that guy who makes hand made exact '86 replicas of these , money and time no object

http://i67.tinypic.com/an214g.jpg

I will do you one .... I have some sweet wrappers I can make a bridge out of

skaguitar

I've been reading this thread with interest as I have recently bought 2 telecasters built by UK builders ( NGD threads on both ) and they have the builders name on the headstock... my question is this...
is a replica a copy of a guitar ie telecaster with the fender logo on the headstock ..? or gibson etc... or are these fakes..?

and because my 2 teles don't have fender on the headstock...what are they classed as...?

I am genuinely confused and would like some clarification..

Richardj

Then the people who demand these products are simply delusional and need to have a really good look at their morals when it comes to intellectual property. 

Presumably the TGP lot would be happy to have Chinese made Colt Peacemakers?

guitars4you

sorry I've have been out for a couple of hours and just got back - Obviously I'm not going to reply to every comment above - Again obvious to say there are concerns and issues expressed by some members and fair to state there is somewhat of a 'marmite' opinion here - Some comments made by FB members that I've grown to respect and by FB members that I've known as customers for some while now and I fully respect their thoughts and comments - So I'm going to take it all on board

ref FB and @TTony - I fully respect the site, it members and everything that goes with it and certainly don't want to go against the morals of the site - We certainly can't have one rule for one and one rule for another - My post started out as a 'fishing' exercise for information and in doing so has created sales inquiries and a host of comments - If Tony and FB members feel the post should be deleted I will endorse that

The only point I would like to pick up on is via @Bridgehouse and the guitar at a later date to be sold off as a 'real McCoy' - I read some while ago on a USA LP forum of such a story and it was alleged a TM LP - Listed for sale on a site like EBay (sorry I can't recall the full ins or outs) - The seller had acquired a host of original parts including a 59 wiring loom and was now trying to sell it for big money and all original - It created the usual debate of is it original or not - A forum member pointed out that he had sold a 59 loom to the seller of the LP - No proof that this was in fact fitted to that guitar, but also likely - the blog went on for days and in the end I got fed up with reading it so I don't know the outcome - But yes it can happen - HOWEVER - let's say someone buys a 62 Strat with written 'authentication' from a well known trusted source - They keep it 5 years then decide to sell it with the appropriate 'authentication' that is now 5 years old - To many this 'authentication' is a powerful tool, so what is to stop anyone changing a few key components and listing it accordingly, hoping you can get way with it - Just a thought

A5D5E5

If the purpose is to make a great guitar it doesn't need to say Gibson.

 If the purpose is to make a great guitar that looks like a Gibson then it should have the makers name and some clearly identifying marks on the back where it is easily visible on inspection.

if it is essentially indistinguishable from a Gibson by somebody who deals in guitars for a living then it has no purpose other than to be a fake and it should be treated no differently to a cheap Chinese fake.  

I'm sure it is a fantastic guitar but it it sounds like a shitty thing for a decent dealer to do.  

Danielsguitars

I've often thought a fender might be easier to pass off as original, I'm no expert 

Passing a replica on as an original is just criminal, bloody disgusting 

Most of the people that buy them know what they are and appreciate them as such, most of the vintage guys that own real bursts have them too 

TTony

guitars4you said:

ref FB and @TTony - I fully respect the site, it members and everything that goes with it and certainly don't want to go against the morals of the site - We certainly can't have one rule for one and one rule for another - My post started out as a 'fishing' exercise for information and in doing so has created sales inquiries and a host of comments - If Tony and FB members feel the post should be deleted I will endorse that

No need to delete the thread Mark - it's a discussion and not a FS ad.  

Richardj

customkits said:

I've often thought a fender might be easier to pass off as original, I'm no expert 

Passing a replica on as a replica is downright criminal 

Most of the people that buy them know what they are and appreciate them as such, most of the vintage guys that own real bursts have them too 

This saddens and disappoints me if they aren't completely open about condoning and encouraging fakery.

There is simply no excuse for it.  It isn't a 'replica', it's a FAKE.

Much worse that the talented builders who make them don't have the courage or scruples to put their own name on them. Shame on them.

Just going to find a ladder to get off of my high horse. 

Twinfan

skaguitar said:

I've been reading this thread with interest as I have recently bought 2 telecasters built by UK builders ( NGD threads on both ) and they have the builders name on the headstock... my question is this...
is a replica a copy of a guitar ie telecaster with the fender logo on the headstock ..? or gibson etc... or are these fakes..?

and because my 2 teles don't have fender on the headstock...what are they classed as...?

I am genuinely confused and would like some clarification..

Fender or Gibson logo and not made by them? They're fakes.

Makers logo? They're replicas or homages.

That's how I see it - it's black or white.

WezV

I got off my high horse the first time I saw a Bravewood in the flesh.  It had me counting pennies in the bank.

also, as a builder I am massively interested in construction methods.  I appreciate a good replica as much as I appreciate a totally new construction technique.  Both paths can produce skilled builders who make excellent guitars.  There is more money in the replica market because that's what people want.

i have made a few things which came close to replicas, but never totally authentic.  I can say I get a lot more emails about the guitars which are closest to the inspiration.  If I was doing it for a living I would not be able to ignore that. 

Bridgehouse

@guitars4you my comment was really just thinking aloud in terms of your reputation and how it might be affected by a potential buyer trying to sell it off as real later on - you wouldn't want to be caught in the collateral damage!

skaguitar

Twinfan said:

skaguitar said:

I've been reading this thread with interest as I have recently bought 2 telecasters built by UK builders ( NGD threads on both ) and they have the builders name on the headstock... my question is this...
is a replica a copy of a guitar ie telecaster with the fender logo on the headstock ..? or gibson etc... or are these fakes..?

and because my 2 teles don't have fender on the headstock...what are they classed as...?

I am genuinely confused and would like some clarification..

Fender or Gibson logo and not made by them? They're fakes.

Makers logo? They're replicas or homages.

That's how I see it - it's black or white.

Thanks for answering...ok..that clears things up for me...mine both have the builders name on the headstock and not fender..

Danielsguitars

WezV said:

I got off my high horse the first time I saw a Bravewood in the flesh.  It had me counting pennies in the bank.

also, as a builder I am massively interested in construction methods.  I appreciate a good replica as much as I appreciate a totally new construction technique.  Both paths can produce skilled builders who make excellent guitars.  There is more money in the replica market because that's what people want.

i have made a few things which came close to replicas, but never totally authentic.  I can say I get a lot more emails about the guitars which are closest to the inspiration.  If I was doing it for a living I would not be able to ignore that. 

This is a dilemma I have with a Lp special style I'm doing now

Do I make it with my own headstock shape etc but all vintage correct construction and hope to sell it or get it slightly closer with a more correct looking headstock so it looks closer to originals

What annoys me is I can get the vintage tone feel and playability with old fashioned construction and glues but my name and headstock on it and it won't even get looked at 

I am working on it though, it's getting stuff out there for more exposure

WezV

customkits said:

WezV said:

I got off my high horse the first time I saw a Bravewood in the flesh.  It had me counting pennies in the bank.

also, as a builder I am massively interested in construction methods.  I appreciate a good replica as much as I appreciate a totally new construction technique.  Both paths can produce skilled builders who make excellent guitars.  There is more money in the replica market because that's what people want.

i have made a few things which came close to replicas, but never totally authentic.  I can say I get a lot more emails about the guitars which are closest to the inspiration.  If I was doing it for a living I would not be able to ignore that. 

This is a dilemma I have with a Lp special style I'm doing now

Do I make it with my own headstock shape etc but all vintage correct construction and hope to sell it or get it slightly closer with a more correct looking headstock so it looks closer to originals

What annoys me is I can get the vintage tone feel and playability with old fashioned construction and glues but my name and headstock on it and it won't even get looked at 

I am working on it though, it's getting stuff out there for more exposure

Go straight down the middle if you are unsure... a Gibson inspired logo and a Gibson inspired headstock without being a total copy of either.

IvisonGuitars

WezV said:

customkits said:

WezV said:

I got off my high horse the first time I saw a Bravewood in the flesh.  It had me counting pennies in the bank.

also, as a builder I am massively interested in construction methods.  I appreciate a good replica as much as I appreciate a totally new construction technique.  Both paths can produce skilled builders who make excellent guitars.  There is more money in the replica market because that's what people want.

i have made a few things which came close to replicas, but never totally authentic.  I can say I get a lot more emails about the guitars which are closest to the inspiration.  If I was doing it for a living I would not be able to ignore that. 

This is a dilemma I have with a Lp special style I'm doing now

Do I make it with my own headstock shape etc but all vintage correct construction and hope to sell it or get it slightly closer with a more correct looking headstock so it looks closer to originals

What annoys me is I can get the vintage tone feel and playability with old fashioned construction and glues but my name and headstock on it and it won't even get looked at 

I am working on it though, it's getting stuff out there for more exposure

Go straight down the middle if you are unsure... a Gibson inspired logo and a Gibson inspired headstock without being a total copy of either.

This and what I also attempted to do here:



Stand on your own merits Darren, if your guitars are great, and I'm sure they will be, plow your own furrow and become a revered builder in your own right.  

guitars4you

Bridgehouse said:

@guitars4you my comment was really just thinking aloud in terms of your reputation and how it might be affected by a potential buyer trying to sell it off as real later on - you wouldn't want to be caught in the collateral damage!

surely no dealer can be held accountable for the actions of a 3rd party at a later date - In the past, I have sold a couple of SVL Simon Law models, Bravewoods and have always sold them as what they are, and if this TM 59 becomes for sale, my receipt would not mention the words Gibson or LP, yet both me and the buyer would agree and no exactly what it is, with no misunderstanding - I agree you can advertise it for sale under massive neon lights stating 'this is not a Gibson' but Gibson and trading standards would not agree

I stated earlier on this blog and I will state it again, in the violin business, it is totally acceptable for someone to pay 10's and 100's of thousands of £'s for a new or used violin that states it is a Strad - they are hand built by many many small luthiers and have been so for many many years - they are not sold as the real McCoy with the intention of 'frauding' the market place and then re-sold for millions of £'s at a later date but they are sold as highly desirable replicas - Such violins are often sold by the likes of Christie's and Sotherby's, as well as respected dealers world wide - many top performers buy them as highly desirable instruments to perform with - As such there is no talk whatsoever of fakes and as such the Strad Replica is common - Everyone knows what they are - ie 'Strad replica by Terry Morgan' or who ever - They have all the correct markings and effectively pay homage to the real McCoy

Regarding the above statement I'm not trying to defend the 'fake' Gibson market just stating a simple fact and I fully respect all above comments from all FB Members

Danielsguitars

Yeah thats the sort of thing I'd of done 
I don't want to as I like my headstock and love vintage stuff

My own goal is vintage feel with modern comforts, alot of people are badge snobs which is why these sorts of guitars are made in the first place

I am trying alot of different stuff out and I'll be getting a pro on Monday to try some out and get feedback
It helps if i can ask his 25k you tube followers 

EricTheWeary

I don't get it really. You've got £7k to spend on a Les Paul type guitar and you want the finest instrument you can get for that and you've decided Terry can make a better one than Gibson can. So why do you need Gibson on the headstock? It's not like taking a punt on something on eBay for £300 and being concerned about losing value. Unless you are attempting some form of deception ( for financial gain or because you think people will be impressed that you own an old guitar) I don't get the point. 

A5D5E5

I am struggling to see any difference here with Del Boy selling fake Rolexes from a briefcase, Big Dave down the pub who gets some dodgy Adidas T Shirts from a mate and Perigrine Smythly-Smthye who sells a fake Picasso.

As a test, would you be prepared to pop into your local police station or customs office and tell them what you are doing?  If so then fine.  If not, why are you doing it?