"Taxman unleashes its 'snooper computer'" so that's what the investigatory powers bill was for

Unorthodox

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tax/return/taxman-unleashes-snooper-computer-information-does-have/

Three choice bits of info.

"HMRC’s powerful “Connect” system now draws on information from myriad government and corporate sources to create a profile of each taxpayer’s total income."

"HMRC said it had used information gathered from banks, peer-to-peer lenders such as Zopa and other financial institutions and then checked it against individuals’ tax returns."

“Connect broadly deals with information spontaneously available in government departments or as part of the digital footprint that people leave when they use the internet,”

These loan companies are handing over your data, Facebook hands over user data (1, 2), and Google hands over user data (1), and all on top of GCHQ capturing everything you ever do online and it's all being used to see if you're dodging tax. Nice.

Deijavoo

Wow.

mudslide73

The "Who's gigging tonight" thread will be like a ghost town!

Unorthodox

The full list is worth posting I think.

What HMRC can find out about you

Visa and Mastercard transactions: Anonymised information on all payments

Land Registry records: To determine properties purchased, and stamp duty paid

DVLA: Details of cars purchased and owned by individuals

UK and overseas bank accounts: From this year it receives information from banks in more than 60 countries.

Internal tax documents: Systems show council tax paid, relevant VAT registration, previous tax investigations, last year's tax return (or absence of one)

Earnings: From any employer, including those you have worked for casually, or on an ad-hoc basis. This includes any company benefits received. It can also access child benefit and maintenance payments through the child support agency

Online marketplaces: Websites such as eBay and Gumtree can be accessed to weed out regular traders

Social media: The Connect system can also look at public social media account information, including from Twitter, Facebook and Instagram

Web browsing and email records: Under the 'Snoopers Charter' HMRC will be able to access individual's digital information

bbill335

What the FUCK? Anything that they might get from spying on small time individuals minus the cost of enforcing and collecting (theoretically) scores of tiny amounts is pissing in the ocean compared to the big guys that dodge tax with impunity. 

Winny_Pooh

Typical right wing monarchial style attitude. Squeeze more out of the middle and poor and leave those at the top alone. 

Where is the greater investigation into tax loopholes, overseas accounts, corporate tax evasion, family trusts & gifts etc? 

ThePrettyDamned

Well, that's a bit rubbish. 

Bellycaster

mudslide73 said:

The "Who's gigging tonight" thread will be like a ghost town!

Haha, yes, I say we move it to S.C. As far as I'm aware though, people only pay tax on their "Profits" so I've got a long way to go before I so much as break even.

wibble

Plus factor in the HMRC retrospective tax legislation they've managed to get in. I bet we will see more retrospective tax changes affecting more people.

LordOxygen

This is an interesting read as well https://www.taxation.co.uk/Articles/2014/09/02/330221/well-connected

the system cost £80m and has apparently generated more than £3bn in extra tax according to the article. 

Strat_a_tat_tat

Not sure I see the issue... if you earn the money - pay the tax.

Unorthodox

Strat_a_tat_tat said:

Not sure I see the issue... if you earn the money - pay the tax.

Yeah, if you've got nothing to hide you've got nothing to fear...

bbill335

Unorthodox said:

Strat_a_tat_tat said:

Not sure I see the issue... if you earn the money - pay the tax.

Yeah, if you've got nothing to hide you've got nothing to fear...

This assumes a system that works perfectly, doesn't falsely incriminate (or at the very least inconvenience) people who've done nothing, and I refer the honourable gentleman to the above point there is far worse tax evasion and lost revenue in the world of multinational businesses than the benefits claimant. This is fighting the right fight on the wrong front, waste of time and resources for minimal gains.

Roland

Strat_a_tat_tat said:

Not sure I see the issue... if you earn the money - pay the tax.

If you don't then you are stealing from the rest of us

Emp_Fab

Unorthodox said:

Yeah, if you've got nothing to hide you've got nothing to fear...

Unorthodox

Emp_Fab said:

Unorthodox said:

Yeah, if you've got nothing to hide you've got nothing to fear...

Exactly my point.

57Deluxe

... yeah but these mul-tie £millionz govern-mental supa-dupa com-puta systems never work properly do they!

Anyway, I have so many aliases for most of my webbery that even I forget who I am!

m_c

The taxman has always been able to get this information, it's just that they've now got a computer that does it all far quicker.

I know somebody who years ago got a full tax/VAT audit, and it was interesting to hear the lengths they went to.
They valued everything in his house, his company premises, and went through all available statements/receipts/invoices, to see if he could afford everything on what he was declaring. They worked out that he could just afford it, or at least to the point that they couldn't prove otherwise.

Not paying tax is always going to be a controversial issue. Being employed and self-employed, my goal each year is to not pay tax on the self-employed bit, but I can currently afford to reinvest any profits back into the business, so if I finally do make the jump to ditching the day job, I have a well equipped business.

IMO one area that really does need cracked down on, are all the contractors operating via limited companies to minimise their tax/VAT bills. They're not operating illegally, but why should they only be paying basic tax/vat when they're ultimately being paid far more, which any normal employee would be paying higher rate tax on?

Strat_a_tat_tat

bbill335 said:

Unorthodox said:

Strat_a_tat_tat said:

Not sure I see the issue... if you earn the money - pay the tax.

Yeah, if you've got nothing to hide you've got nothing to fear...

This assumes a system that works perfectly, doesn't falsely incriminate (or at the very least inconvenience) people who've done nothing, and I refer the honourable gentleman to the above point there is far worse tax evasion and lost revenue in the world of multinational businesses than the benefits claimant. This is fighting the right fight on the wrong front, waste of time and resources for minimal gains.

No... my statement doesn't assume that.  You've just assumed that my statement assumed it. :-)

In addition, I don't think it's a case of 'fighting the right fight on the wrong front'... surely it's the case that the right fight should be fought on many fronts i.e. tax evasion should be fought wherever it occurs, regardless of the size of the target individual or the target corporation.

Also... where's your evidence that it's a 'waste of time and resources for minimal gains'? Didn't someone provide a link to an article that claimed an £80m investment has generated £3bn in extra revenue?

Chalky

m_c said:

The taxman has always been able to get this information, it's just that they've now got a computer that does it all far quicker.

I know somebody who years ago got a full tax/VAT audit, and it was interesting to hear the lengths they went to.
They valued everything in his house, his company premises, and went through all available statements/receipts/invoices, to see if he could afford everything on what he was declaring. They worked out that he could just afford it, or at least to the point that they couldn't prove otherwise.

Not paying tax is always going to be a controversial issue. Being employed and self-employed, my goal each year is to not pay tax on the self-employed bit, but I can currently afford to reinvest any profits back into the business, so if I finally do make the jump to ditching the day job, I have a well equipped business.

IMO one area that really does need cracked down on, are all the contractors operating via limited companies to minimise their tax/VAT bills. They're not operating illegally, but why should they only be paying basic tax/vat when they're ultimately being paid far more, which any normal employee would be paying higher rate tax on?

Are you being serious?

You perfectly described the clear separation between your own business and your own employment.  Yet you cannot see it is the same for the contractor with the limited company?

m_c

Chalky said:

Are you being serious?

You perfectly described the clear separation between your own business and your own employment.  Yet you cannot see it is the same for the contractor with the limited company?

I know it is, but in my case, I'm not using a limited company for the sole purpose of storing money to avoid tax, which is what most contractors are doing.