The Stratocaster and Telecaster

Alnico

@richardhomer ;
I thought it was 'Rockpalast' when i saw the thumbnail.
Sounds great despite nothing digital !

Brilliant concert and yes, sounds just incredible. Like he's barely even trying and still running rings around me.

Fuck the radio i'm leaving that playing now. Despite seeing it before, thanks for posting tonight's entertainment and ongoing theme.
It's Dire Straits night.

richardhomer

Gassage said:

The greatest Dak Red has to be the Gary Moore

That's Fiesta Red #Pedant

richardhomer

Gassage said:

@alnico Summers' is a CS reissue.

It's a replica of his original which he used extensively with The Police. It can be seen in this - along with Gordon's original nose....

Alnico

lmao @ "Original nose" !

richardhomer

Alnico said:

lmao @ "Original nose" !

richardhomer

Voxman said:
I didn't realise the difference until I looked it up.  Recent Strats have slab boards too then, like my 2010 USA Standard Limited Edition.  Because its 22 frets it has a slight overhang, but it is definitely a straight cut rosewood 'slab' and not curved veneer.

Your '69 will have a veneer (or 'round laminate'/'round lam') maple board, as both maple and rosewood necks were manufactured the same way at the time - with the truss rod going in through the front of the neck.

There's much rumour about whether slabs or veneers sound better. Received wisdom is that slabs sound darker - yet I've back to backed real vintage examples and found the reverse to be the case.

I'm sure in some instances it's true - but you have to take each example on its merits.

Gassage

richardhomer said:

Voxman said:
I didn't realise the difference until I looked it up.  Recent Strats have slab boards too then, like my 2010 USA Standard Limited Edition.  Because its 22 frets it has a slight overhang, but it is definitely a straight cut rosewood 'slab' and not curved veneer.

Your '69 will have a veneer (or 'round laminate'/'round lam') maple board, as both maple and rosewood necks were manufactured the same way at the time - with the truss rod going in through the front of the neck.

There's much rumour about whether slabs or veneers sound better. Received wisdom is that slabs sound darker - yet I've back to backed real vintage examples and found the reverse to be the case.

I'm sure in some instances it's true - but you have to take each example on its merits.

Richard,

I'm not sure it's the perceived tonality, although I'd agree that 'common wisdom' says darker, but I reckon it's because they feel nicer generally, by quite a distance, esp if you play thumb over. Just smioother and also more robust. Sounds nuts, but I believe it to be the case.

Voxman

Not sure if you guys are already aware but the reason for the change to rosewood from Maple was because Leo Fender saw that maple necks were getting dirty with fingernail marks and he didn't like the idea of photographs not showing his guitar as looking pristine.  So the rosewood slab board was brought in as it looked smarter.  However players fed back that the tone was different to the maple board, warmer/mellower but less bright, and the veneer version of the rosewood board came into being because it had less rosewood and tonally was nearer the brighter sound of maple.  

guitars4you

Voxman said:

Not sure if you guys are already aware but the reason for the change to rosewood from Maple was because Leo Fender saw that maple necks were getting dirty with fingernail marks and he didn't like the idea of photographs not showing his guitar as looking pristine.  So the rosewood slab board was brought in as it looked smarter.  However players fed back that the tone was different to the maple board, warmer/mellower but less bright, and the veneer version of the rosewood board came into being because it had less rosewood and tonally was nearer the brighter sound of maple.  

I thought it was to do with in the future that the CITES authorities would be getting £50 for each certificate - Leo was forward thinking and on a back hander

ICBM

Voxman said:

Not sure if you guys are already aware but the reason for the change to rosewood from Maple was because Leo Fender saw that maple necks were getting dirty with fingernail marks and he didn't like the idea of photographs not showing his guitar as looking pristine.

He'd be absolutely spinning in his grave if he could see what the Custom Shop are putting his name on these days!

HAL9000

riscado said:

I'm wondering, if you guys could have an old fender (meaning 50s/60s era, including some post-cbs beauties, like the venrable 68-71 thinline), what would you rather have... a strat or a tele?

'59 toploader Tele a la Jimmy Page / Jim campilongo.

richardhomer

Voxman said:

players fed back that the tone was different to the maple board, warmer/mellower but less bright, and the veneer version of the rosewood board came into being because it had less rosewood and tonally was nearer the brighter sound of maple.  

The switch to veneer boards was rumoured to be due to stability. It certainly didn't save wood, as the curved veneer was machined from solid. And as I mentioned, I've played both and found no correlation that slab boards sound darker. When I simultaneously owned both a 63 and a 65 (both veneer boards) - the 65 sounded much darker than the 63 - but compared to a 61 I A/B'd it with, the 63 was darker than that....

riscado

HAL9000 said:

riscado said:

I'm wondering, if you guys could have an old fender (meaning 50s/60s era, including some post-cbs beauties, like the venrable 68-71 thinline), what would you rather have... a strat or a tele?

'59 toploader Tele a la Jimmy Page / Jim campilongo.

I'd probably agree with you on that one... either that or a 69 thinline with mahogany body.

Gassage said:

Voxman said:

Gassage said:

riscado said:

I'm wondering, if you guys could have an old fender (meaning 50s/60s era, including some post-cbs beauties, like the venrable 68-71 thinline), what would you rather have... a strat or a tele?

I had this chat with the famous Fender historian, David Pym a few weeks back.

He has many.

His view, and mine, a 59-61 Slab Board Strat.

I didn't realise the difference until I looked it up.  Recent Strats have slab boards too then, like my 2010 USA Standard Limited Edition.  Because its 22 frets it has a slight overhang, but it is definitely a straight cut rosewood 'slab' and not curved veneer.

Slabs honestly feel and sound better- IMO.

From my experience, I've always been a bit more drawn towards veneer board guitars, mainly 1964s, seem to have it... IMHO

Voxman

richardhomer said:

Voxman said:

players fed back that the tone was different to the maple board, warmer/mellower but less bright, and the veneer version of the rosewood board came into being because it had less rosewood and tonally was nearer the brighter sound of maple.  

The switch to veneer boards was rumoured to be due to stability. It certainly didn't save wood, as the curved veneer was machined from solid. And as I mentioned, I've played both and found no correlation that slab boards sound darker. When I simultaneously owned both a 63 and a 65 (both veneer boards) - the 65 sounded much darker than the 63 - but compared to a 61 I A/B'd it with, the 63 was darker than that....

There seem to be a range of reasons quoted and yes, stability is one of them.  In Tom Wheeler's 'Stratocaster Chronicles' the explanation related to how frets were cut and the expansion coefficient of rosewood to maple, and that veneer gave greater stability against warping. However, slab boards are still made (as per the example of my 2010 Standard) so if these are less stable, I'm puzzled as to why slab boards are still used?  And if they are less stable, why are they desired and preferred by folk such as yourself, for example.  I've also never read of any reported warp-age on slab boards so it can't be a common (if any) issue.  The explanation re stability therefore seems puzzling.

cruxiform

richardhomer said:

Gassage said:

The greatest Dak Red has to be the Gary Moore

That's Fiesta Red #Pedant

Whatever colour it is, it's legendary. 

ICBM

riscado said:

From my experience, I've always been a bit more drawn towards veneer board guitars, mainly 1964s, seem to have it... IMHO

I've always preferred them too, although not to the point I would pick one over the other unless it was the only difference.

riscado

ICBM said:

riscado said:

From my experience, I've always been a bit more drawn towards veneer board guitars, mainly 1964s, seem to have it... IMHO

I've always preferred them too, although not to the point I would pick one over the other unless it was the only difference.

Completely agree, I would never pick a guitar over another, on account of such a detail... each guitar has it's own individual voice and feel, that's what I would base my choice upon.

However most of the 64 stratocasters I've played (my own included), have a fluty quality to the notes, which I highly appreciate on a strat. But this could be luck of the draw. I've been more pleased with 64-65 strats, then I have been with earlier slabboards. But of course, this means absolutely nothing in the overall universe of existing pre-cbs strats.

The very well know luthier Scott Lentz, has described many a times, having to work on pre-cbs slabboard strats, which had the fretboard barely hanging to the neck, along with other issues. He is also a known user of veneer (which are more labour intensive), in his own guitar builds. The use of slabboards in modern guitars is quite simple to explain in my view, they're easier to build and there's a demand for it. In any case i don't think it's such a big thing, and just as ICBM rightfully said, even though I prefer curved boards, none of the options would stop me from buying the right guitar.

guitars4you

Just had to adjust the truss rod today on a 60's style Custom Shop Strat - loosen the 4 bolts etc etc - so a quick question - If the Strat was launched today at the NAMM show as the brand new exciting guitar, hence no previous history, would Leo have chosen the vintage style truss rod with butt end adjustment, or the new style adjustment at the top nut end and discreetly hidden - On that basis is there any 'tonal difference' - I doubt it - But I totally see the benefit, or speedy option of the top nut adjustment

ICBM

guitars4you said:

Just had to adjust the truss rod today on a 60's style Custom Shop Strat - loosen the 4 bolts etc etc - so a quick question - If the Strat was launched today at the NAMM show as the brand new exciting guitar, hence no previous history, would Leo have chosen the vintage style truss rod with butt end adjustment, or the new style adjustment at the top nut end and discreetly hidden - On that basis is there any 'tonal difference' - I doubt it - But I totally see the benefit, or speedy option of the top nut adjustment

Leo intentionally put the truss rod at the body end to stop owners fiddling with it, so yes he would probably have done the same again .

He was well aware of the pitfalls of musicians misusing equipment even that early on. It's also why he designed his amps with no impedance selector, a safety switch in the speaker jack and to be very impedance-insensitive…

richardhomer

guitars4you said:

Just had to adjust the truss rod today on a 60's style Custom Shop Strat - loosen the 4 bolts etc etc - so a quick question - If the Strat was launched today at the NAMM show as the brand new exciting guitar, hence no previous history, would Leo have chosen the vintage style truss rod with butt end adjustment, or the new style adjustment at the top nut end and discreetly hidden - On that basis is there any 'tonal difference' - I doubt it - But I totally see the benefit, or speedy option of the top nut adjustment

He designed the three-bolt Microtilt I believe - and used a variant on Music Man guitars - so I'm guessing he came up with the Bullet Truss Rod as well? Again - it was featured (in modified form) on the original Music Man guitars and basses.