laquer checking with a blade

scalino65

Hi
No doubt I'm getting way ahead of myself here, but ahead of a junior build, I'm thinking about trying some laquer checking. I reckon I'll be ok with the actual painting as I've done a fair bit on cars, so I'm thinking absolute flating of the paint and patience are required.
Ive read various threads involving freezing both in the freezer and with an aerosol and results look good. However, I saw a Tom Murphy video and he seems to painstakingly score the laquer with a razor blade to replicate the aging. Anyone tried it?

scalino65

actually after bothering to "use teh search function" ive found some interesting threads about this. Most seem to be against the idea. My mate has a Gibson Dickey Betts goldie and that has the most amazing relic job on it. I assume all done by TM by hand... 

Andyjr1515

...I think @WezV has done it that way recently?

WezV

yeah, i have done two recently.  both looked like i had made a terrible mistake at first, and i have shown pics of this stage - warts and all

this is the first attempt, done with a decent quality stanley blade - sharp and rigid
http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/76141/through-neck-dc-junior-build/p2

this is attempt number 2 with a finer more flexible exacto blade 
http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/55672/build-thread-pancake-body-les-paul-deluxe/p8

Gassage

Top tip. Wait for a night below zero. Put guits in car. Bring out, put on radiators.

WezV

I have a tele body in the freezer as we speak

Danielsguitars

One night in the boot of my car worked well on a nitro laquer finish 

scalino65

Thanks for your replies chaps. I think I'll try just a "natural" approach first and see how I get on. Maybe just leave in the car boot overnight with the option of more forced checking after that.
Wez, I think yours look great!

WezV

There are pro's and cons to each method.

I can see why Gibson CS generally use the knife.   Its a lot more controllable and you can accurately produce the kind of cracks people expect to see and want to pay for.  Its also safer for the guitar since you don't subject it to extreme temperatures. 

The freezer will produce natural cracks, but its totally uncontrolled - just like natural wear should be.  The important bit here is that peoples perception of natural wear is often different to the randomness of actual natural wear.

If you do go for the freezer, consider adding a few dents before.  You can still add more later if needed but cracks will form around the dents.  You have to balance old wear and new wear with the fake life of the finish.    Did the cracks appear when new, or after a few years of life on the road? did the guitar pick up more dents after the cracks first appeared?  Did it continue t craze after this?   There is no strictly right answer to these questions so no strict order to do things in - but you will get different results by adding some wear before freezing or after.  

You will also need to let the lacquer properly harden for at least a month, possibly longer

Whichever method you do, fake wear always looks worse before it starts to look good

scalino65

Hi wez, thanks for this. Funnily enough I had thought of doing a few dings before and a few dings after to try and replicate the "dinging" over the life of teh gtr!
One other question, if I may, when you say the fake wear looks worse before it gets better, I'm assuming that a good buffing will lessen that effect quite a bit - is that what you find?

WezV

yeah, for me its all about softening the damage so it feels like its not recent

Buffing it again will do that, but obviously if you buff with compound  you will get some white residue in the damage - you can see a bit of that on my les paul as I had not cleaned it all off, I finally did it with a soft toothbrush. .   depending on the level of gloss you want buffing with 0000 liberon wire wool and bri-wax will also work and not leave a white residue, but it can be a bit too satin for a truly vintage look.

If you are planning on rubbing a dark stain on  you may need to do things in a different order.   You can give a wipe down with stain after buffing compound, but not after wax.  You can use a tinted wax instead though.  You may also do stain straight after the freezer when the cracks first appear

I am still learning the ways that work for me, but it often takes a few goes going back and forth before I am happy with the level of wear and the level of sheen.  I don't think this is a bad thing as it adds multiple levels of wear which make it less consistent/more authentic than the 3 stage relics built by the major custom shops

fields5069

@Deadman did a nice job on the Ashcaster I bought off him, not sure which method he used though.

thermionic

WezV said:

Whichever method you do, fake wear always looks worse before it starts to look good

If only there was a way to make the fake wear look more like real wear...

Danielsguitars

Play the crap out of it = real wear

WezV

No need for the negativity peeps 

thermionic

I just thought it was funny that even the most expertly-applied fake relicing appears to be improved by what sounds like "real wear".

The word "mint" is sometimes used in descriptions of used Custom Shop relics.

WezV

thermionic said:

I just thought it was funny that even the most expertly-applied fake relicing appears to be improved by what sounds like "real wear".

The word "mint" is sometimes used in descriptions of used Custom Shop relics.

Yeah, but these things quickly turn into 10 pages of opinions on relics with no actual helpful info on how to make them better (I know, I know.... don't bother in the first place.  Just play them. Etc...)


that can be frustrating for someone who posts methods and results including .... the warts and all stages.   I am not saying my methods are correct or the best way, just discussing the way I have done it and the results I have achieved.  I would welcome constructive criticism.

thermionic

No I enjoyed one of your recent posts, and it was exactly as you said - the early photos looked fairly unconvincing, but after the latter stages of what I guess are more "natural" processes to soften the edges (compared to the initial stages of using tools like razor blades) it looked completely natural.

I've never tried relicing a guitar, so it's all learning about it for me.

Deadman

fields5069 said:

@Deadman did a nice job on the Ashcaster I bought off him, not sure which method he used though.

Well thank you, @fields5069. For the checking I used a can of compressed air, upturned and allowed the accelerant to spill out. It cracks nitro cellulose instantly. Some people say it doesn't look authentic enough but I was happy with it. To darken everything I used tea followed by the white vinegar/steel wool method. 

WezV

Deadman said:

fields5069 said:

@Deadman did a nice job on the Ashcaster I bought off him, not sure which method he used though.

Well thank you, @fields5069. For the checking I used a can of compressed air, upturned and allowed the accelerant to spill out. It cracks nitro cellulose instantly. Some people say it doesn't look authentic enough but I was happy with it. To darken everything I used tea followed by the white vinegar/steel wool method. 

There will be good and bad examples of each method.   The main issue with the air can trick is getting it to work consistently across the whole body.  


There I go contradicting myself again.

scalino65

WezV, what I think is truely brilliant in your builds is that you done "everything"! youve started with a block f wood and created a musical instrument from it. \how it looks at teh end is entirely down to your imagination. You havent "faked" anything or ruined a perfectly good existing instrument . Plus, someone cant just go into a shop and buy another one! Its "built not bought" and in that respect its the total opposite to someone buying a relic strat for instance (like I did- a brilliant guitar by the way). Not everyone can or wants to build one, thats for sure, but in my eyes its a fine thing to do to actually create something and lets remember, only really just a bit of fun and an extension of our hobby/passion,etc.  Unless youre planning on becoming teh next M...G...:)