Phone masts

menamestom

The debate seems to have switched from masts over to handsets again. This is a completely differerent thing.  Handsets come with a health warning and can heat up the heads they are next to.  I wouldn't want my kids to be on a mobile for long, but masts don't bother me at all.  One on the street outside would not worry me.  It's the last time I'll say it but it's that old inverse square law again.  The power disssipates quickly over distance.  A transmitter next to your head or in your pocket will locally warm your body up.  Could it affect your brain? Probably not but for the ease of getting the kids to use hands free earbuds, I get them to use them.   

ICBM

I was interested to calculate the distance from the mast at which it's the same intensity as a phone at roughly 1cm from your body... eg if the mast is ten thousand times as powerful then under the inverse square law the answer is 1m, or if it's a million times then it's 10m.

(Edit) Aha… found it. Typical phone transmitter power is up to 125mW for modern phones, and a typical mast is up to 100W. The mast is only about a thousand times more powerful, so the answer should be 30cm/1foot, roughly. But that assumes that the mast transmitter isn't highly directive - which it is, so the inverse square law doesn't fully apply. The real answer will be slightly greater - and if the phone is not transmitting constantly at maximum power, which it won't be *especially* if you're that close to the mast, the real answer is greater again. But it can't be anywhere near as much as a million-to-one difference and probably not much more than 10,000 to one - so basically unless you're within a few metres of the mast - and at roughly the same height - then the phone in your pocket is definitely more dangerous.

thomasross20

And wi-fi in your home would be the biggest source anyway, which almost everybody has.

ICBM

thomasross20 said:

And wi-fi in your home would be the biggest source anyway, which almost everybody has.

Wi-fi transmitters have a maximum power of only 100mW, so less than a phone. Unless you're literally holding the wi-fi router, the phone in your pocket is still a bigger potential hazard.

thomasross20

It's about time I went on my phone less..

CabbageCat

Rocker said:

Simple questions. How does anyone know that the mobile in their pocket is not doing them any harm? How can anyone be sure that a mobile in a bag which is in the net behind or under a baby in a buggy will not harm the child?

To go about this you would first establish the things that might come out of the phone and cause damage (heat, radiation, terrorists etc). Then you would establish the levels of these things that would cause damage over a meaningful amount of exposure. Then you would measure these things to determine whether they were above or below these levels.

Sorry to be a bit...eurgh...sciencey.

NelsonP

Clarky said:

vasselmeyer said:

@Rocker This anti-tech stance is something that really confuses me. Even though it’s been consistent throughout history. When Guttenburg’s moveable-type press appeared the Church was worried about losing their monopoly on literacy, yet the spread of knowledge through printed material has been arguably the greatest thing to happen to mankind in the last thousand years. It was the same when the first natural philosophers started to understand what we now call science and brought on the Enlightenment.

which in turn lead to "the age of bumping into people in the street cos they are texting someone every second of every day"

Funny you should mention that.....

"Apple iPhone sales correlates with People who died by falling down the stairs"

http://tylervigen.com/view_correlation?id=28669

...with usual correlation is not causation disclaimers etc.

ICBM

NelsonP said:

"Apple iPhone sales correlates with People who died by falling down the stairs"

http://tylervigen.com/view_correlation?id=28669

...with usual correlation is not causation disclaimers etc.

False correlation - look at the scales for each, the stair-death one doesn't start from zero. If the stair-death scale was 0 to 2000 not 1900 to 2000, the line would be almost level and so you wouldn't see a correlation. It doesn't mean there's no link either though...

thomasross20

I got a very quick e-mail from my council saying the mast meets regulations with links to follow up regarding the decision (haven't checked as I'm at work). I can post the link if you like.

thomasross20

Here are the details - I need to check myself after work.

https://planning.westlothian.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=DCAPR_139232

Also, a guy from work posted this to me:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20662418

TimmyO

Rocker said:

Simple questions. How does anyone know that the mobile in their pocket is not doing them any harm? How can anyone be sure that a mobile in a bag which is in the net behind or under a baby in a buggy will not harm the child?

Indeed - and nobody has yet disproved any link between internet use and the late onset of type 2 diabetes

CabbageCat

thomasross20 said:

I got a very quick e-mail from my council saying the mast meets regulations with links to follow up regarding the decision (haven't checked as I'm at work). I can post the link if you like.

We already know that they're OK. So do you, you just need to tell your brain that.

thomasross20

Yeah I know - unless my teeth start falling out or something  
FYI:
http://www.vodafone.com/content/index/about/sustainability/mmh.html#

TBH our wifi router is right under the computer and I always sit right next to that!

ICBM

thomasross20 said:

Yeah I know - unless my teeth start falling out or something  
FYI:
http://www.vodafone.com/content/index/about/sustainability/mmh.html#

TBH our wifi router is right under the computer and I always sit right next to that!

Same here - but I'm about 50cm from it, so the signal strength when it gets to me is 1/2500th of that from the mobile phone in my pocket, if they're both transmitting at 100mW and the phone transmitter is 1cm away.

The inverse square law is very powerful. Even if it was purely linear, it would still be a 50th of the strength. The phone is *by far* the greater risk. Which is why it's now sitting on the desk about as far away as the router...