Moving to London to teach guitar?

stecarey

I'm 26, I picked my guitar back up after a few years without playing and it has been somewhat more addictive than ever before! I was in a band while at school and had lessons for a few years. However, I'm enjoying it that much that I'm considering throwing the towel in with my job in the next year, moving to London, and working as a guitar teacher- so that I can be in a location with more guitar opportunities. I currently play as often as possible, every day- sometimes 4 hours a day.  Am I going a bit mad? Should I really run away to London- At least for a gap year and some fun  I'm in a position where I can drop in and out of my current career and so would like to experiment with this idea. I just need to really get up to scratch with the 6 string.... it's an enjoyable process anyway

Does there tend to be work where students are allocated a guitar teacher as opposed to the guitar teacher being freelance? Does anyone know of a website that lists guitar teaching jobs, that I would be able to have a look over? The conventional job websites, such as indeed etc, are a bit poor for this type of thing. 

Ste

boogieman

Dunno where you're based now but can you afford to live there? House prices and rents are ridiculous in London, make sure you do plenty of research beforehand.

stecarey

boogieman said:

Dunno where you're based now but can you afford to live there? House prices and rents are ridiculous in London, make sure you do plenty of research beforehand.

Cash is a big consideration, I was thinking I would possibly get by on a mediocre wage and slum it for a bit.

stecarey

I was considering the masters in guitar performance at ICMP, however, I would have zero income during that and student finance would only cover the tuitions fees. Possible for a year after a good amount of saving- rent would be about £8000 per year. 

Kebabkid

You might want to talk to these guys and see what they say - http://www.rgt.org/

CRB checks are usually required for schools and more official places and it's always a good thing to have as parents do ask for it. Peripatetic work pays between £27-35 per hour in London and £30 is about average.

siraxeman

It sounds like you're gonna need a fair wedge behind you to start with and even then it sounds like a gamble. It takes time to build up your student numbers to where you can sustain a living off of it. I've done it for my full income since 2004...was mostly private 1-1 1hr lessons but in the last 5yrs its swung towards mostly schools work. The schools work is now my real bread n butter with just a handful of private students. The private work always was the most rewarding and typically you get a higher age and level of experience (tho still you get plenty beginners)...but the school work pays the bills now days...but is mostly far less satisfying as you teach kids who have no real desire to actually put any serious effort in. In my schools work it is typical for kids to practice between zero and 30mins total for the whole week between one lesson and their next. Plus schools is typically done in small group settings. So compared to 1hr 1 to1 the results are painfully slow. Still got when you get the odd keeny who does practice and has real desire to 'make it work'.  

Moominpapa

Not sure what the housing situation is like in Neverland but I think you're going to be shocked at the cost of accommodation and other living expenses in London compared to other parts of the country. As others have said, research this carefully before taking a drastic step.

ToneControl

Here's a map showing average rent of one-bed flats within 1km of each tube station:
https://media.timeout.com/images/102882214/image.jpg

There are a few places at the end of  some tubelines where the monthly cost drops to a level comparable with  the £750 a month  I stuggled to find tenants for when rented out  our 5 bed detached house in a  very nice Cheshire village 3 years ago

Grunfeld

ToneControl said:

Here's a map showing average rent of one-bed flats within 1km of each tube station:

That seems about right. Saw a couple of what looked like cheap anomalies in my neck of the woods (out East and north of the river) till I figured that your £500 in Redbridge will literally be a box room in a shared house that's likely to be occupied to maximum density with Bangladeshi or sub-Saharan families who speak little or no English, or West African families who speak a little more.  I used to do a NHS community gig so got to know the area well.  It looked a pretty hard environment and life but I guess it's all relative to what you've come from and not being able to afford anything else.

mudslide73

Amazing. I knew it was expensive but there's some right run down holes there at £1k plus.

fretmeister

stecarey said:

I was considering the masters in guitar performance at ICMP, however, I would have zero income during that and student finance would only cover the tuitions fees. Possible for a year after a good amount of saving- rent would be about £8000 per year. 

8k rent per year in London?

Would you like to buy some magic beans?

So that's about the first £12000 of your gross income on rent.

If you can find a dive for 8k it won't really be London. It will be right at the outside of the tube map. The tube might reach Watford but that's not actually London anymore.

So either your students have to travel to you and there will be closer options or you have to travel to them. Could be an hour travel between students and that means a non paying hour. 

You say you need to get your skills up to scratch- most school teaching jobs require their music teachers to be able to teach to a Grade 8 level.

Is there a local music trust near you? There is one near me and they are always looking for qualified teachers on various instruments and have loads of students.

If there is one, talk to them and find out what you would need to be a teacher there.

The head of guitar at my local one is scary. Can sight read Paginini with no mistakes.

octatonic

I taught in London for almost 10 years.

Dont do it.

olafgarten

Please come to Surrey, we have a shortage of good Guitar Teachers. 

The first one I tried had a rather unusual method, he told me we would spend the first 10 hours learning theory before even touching the Guitar. That might work for some, but I think that the Guitar is one instrument where theory is not that important. 

The second one was rather strange, we started the first lesson and struggled to play Guitar, he knew chord shapes but couldn't fret properly. It turns out he is a pianist who thought he could teach Guitar because 'how hard can it be'. 

After this I gave up, I could only find 4 teachers who could travel to me. 

57Deluxe

In my experience, any contracted work to schools or educationalist establishments require significant compromises: You have to become registered as an employee and have your tax and NI taken at source. You will also have to confirm to all the rules and regs surrounding teachers and supply study plans and performance targets up front..

The rate per lesson I found to be set at approx £22

siraxeman

£22 is exactly the rate schools pay here for me. Same rate as my private work. But often in the past people have phoned to enquire of price for the private lessons and been shocked even at £22 per hour.  Many folks actually think that is very expensive! Had a foreign sounding bloke on the phone asking a few yrs back...and when I told him the price he actually thought I meant that was for a coarse of lessons... you'd think he was having a laugh but I could gear his voice drop and his disappointment . Some people have no idea.

Kebabkid

57Deluxe said:

In my experience, any contracted work to schools or educationalist establishments require significant compromises: You have to become registered as an employee and have your tax and NI taken at source. You will also have to confirm to all the rules and regs surrounding teachers and supply study plans and performance targets up front..

The rate per lesson I found to be set at approx £22

My wife is a peri music teacher (singing and piano) in 2 Surrey schools and also teachers at home.

She mentioned that the tax and NI taken at source applies if the school are funding the lessons. Otherwise, the parents pay you directly, by cheque or bank transfer, and usually for the term upfront and you're responsible for your self-assessment tax and NI, so you'll need an accountant if you've no experience of tax returns.

Parents, and students for that matter, do like grades to have some form of benchmark and so be prepared for that and that's usually when the school funds lessons.

30 min lessons are more common in schools and are around £16.50

Privately, and if in your own space, you'll have to think about whether your tenancy agreement allows for using the place as a business and also, depending on the others you plan to teach, whether you'll be disturbing other tenants.

Veganic

Are you giving lessons now?


Edit: and that question goes to @stecarey if he/she is still around. 

mynamesnotbob

My kids are £50 per half term for 30 min lessons each week, so so £50 for 3 hours. Thats in cheshire

I can't see how anyone can afford to live off that in cheshire, so even scaling that up to London prices I can't see you can have a life on that. 

Frankly how anyone lives with London prices is beyond me - not in a snobbish way, but unless even earning £50k - £60k it would be a month by month existence, anyone who can make it work, especially with a family then it's hats off to them!

Renting other than a bin for £8k a year in London is a pipe dream

boogieman

mynamesnotbob said:

My kids are £50 per half term for 30 min lessons each week, so so £50 for 3 hours. Thats in cheshire

I can't see how anyone can afford to live off that in cheshire, so even scaling that up to London prices I can't see you can have a life on that. 

Frankly how anyone lives with London prices is beyond me - not in a snobbish way, but unless even earning £50k - £60k it would be a month by month existence, anyone who can make it work, especially with a family then it's hats off to them!

Renting other than a bin for £8k a year in London is a pipe dream

If you bought before the huge house price rises, maybe 15-20 years back, then London was manageable. I don't know how anyone can afford to buy there nowadays though, even property in what used to be considered shithole areas seems to be considered desirable (e.g. expensive). Ripple effect I guess.  I think even £8k for annual rent in London is wishful thinking. I moved out of a one bed flat in Brentford 5 years back. It's an ok area but not that amazing. I was paying a grand a month back then, god knows what they're charging now. 

siraxeman

mynamesnotbob said:

My kids are £50 per half term for 30 min lessons each week, so so £50 for 3 hours. Thats in cheshire

I can't see how anyone can afford to live off that in cheshire, so even scaling that up to London prices I can't see you can have a life on that. 

Are your kids taught 1-1 for those lessons? I'm guessing its not the case, usually each area has its local music service that most schools use to get their instrumental teachers in. We're not paid holidays as we're all freelancers. How it works is say I go into a school for 1 hour (for example) then i'll have 6 kids for that 1 hour, and it'd be either 2 groups of 3 (or 3 of 2). Essentially you are paying for 10mins worth of tuition, but in a group setting 3 kids will share a 30min session. It is in not comparable to 1-1 tuition, but that's typically how most school instrumental teaching is done.

Parents can have the option of 1-1 lessons but of course they are naturally more expensive and 95% of parents don't bother opting for that. I have 95% of my schools work through my local music service and only 1 school that got me through finding me online and enquiring as a private customer would do. Most of my colleagues have no schools apart from what the music service has given them ie this is the norm. The work I do, pays me my £22 an hour and also a few squids to the music service for their services. Essentially they are a recruitment agency, they do all the vetting and pay for the DBS!  

example - 6 kids = 1hr. All paying using your example of £50 for 6 lessons = £8.33 per sesh! So teacher gets his cut, and the rest will go to the local music service. They're like all recruitment agencies make money off it to...as you can see as none of us get anywhere near £50 per hour in schools. I think where I am the kids are paying less than £6 a lesson though but still you can see quite a profit margin!

mynamesnotbob

siraxeman said:

mynamesnotbob said:

My kids are £50 per half term for 30 min lessons each week, so so £50 for 3 hours. Thats in cheshire

I can't see how anyone can afford to live off that in cheshire, so even scaling that up to London prices I can't see you can have a life on that. 

Are your kids taught 1-1 for those lessons? I'm guessing its not the case, usually each area has its local music service that most schools use to get their instrumental teachers in. We're not paid holidays as we're all freelancers. How it works is say I go into a school for 1 hour (for example) then i'll have 6 kids for that 1 hour, and it'd be either 2 groups of 3 (or 3 of 2). Essentially you are paying for 10mins worth of tuition, but in a group setting 3 kids will share a 30min session. It is in not comparable to 1-1 tuition, but that's typically how most school instrumental teaching is done.

Parents can have the option of 1-1 lessons but of course they are naturally more expensive and 95% of parents don't bother opting for that. I have 95% of my schools work through my local music service and only 1 school that got me through finding me online and enquiring as a private customer would do. Most of my colleagues have no schools apart from what the music service has given them ie this is the norm. The work I do, pays me my £22 an hour and also a few squids to the music service for their services. Essentially they are a recruitment agency, they do all the vetting and pay for the DBS!  

example - 6 kids = 1hr. All paying using your example of £50 for 6 lessons = £8.33 per sesh! So teacher gets his cut, and the rest will go to the local music service. They're like all recruitment agencies make money off it to...as you can see as none of us get anywhere near £50 per hour in schools. I think where I am the kids are paying less than £6 a lesson though but still you can see quite a profit margin!

No that is 121 tuition, 30 mins every week, it's school set prices. She has guitar, and he has drums. I still think the rate is very low, and struggle to see how you can live off that as you aren't back to back all day, and have to travel to each school. I don't think £8.33 is much per hour personally, especially if you are giving someone the skills of playing an instrument for the rest of their lives