Cressida DickHead of the Met Police

digitalscream

@Gassage - an inquest found her innocent, as did a jury on viewing all the evidence. Do you have access to evidence that they didn't?

Gassage

digitalscream said:

@Gassage - an inquest found her innocent, as did a jury on viewing all the evidence. Do you have access to evidence that they didn't?

What, after Ian Blair refused the IPCC evidential access?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

marantz1300

my brothers a cop.
he refuses to have a gun.

Fretwired

Gassage said:

Version of story as reported by eye-witnesses soon after the shooting was specifically rejected by the police spokesman in favour of a version where deMenezes wore a duffle coat, jumped the barrier and ran through the tube station.

All lies. I am not sure whether the Met ever actually withdrew this version.

Dick was Officer in Command of the operation hence was in charge of the lies that were deliberately fed to prime time journalists for the evening news.

Monumental fuck up.

No she wasn't - when CDM was at large command was passed to SO19. And you're forgetting that the rumours that the guys who pulled the trigger were SAS and not police. That was never confirmed nor denied but if it were true it makes some sense. And the guy doing the surveillance wasn't police but military intelligence. Why?

Gassage

@digitalscream Have a read of the layer upon layer of cover up

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Jean_Charles_de_Menezes

Gassage

Fretwired said:

Gassage said:

Version of story as reported by eye-witnesses soon after the shooting was specifically rejected by the police spokesman in favour of a version where deMenezes wore a duffle coat, jumped the barrier and ran through the tube station.

All lies. I am not sure whether the Met ever actually withdrew this version.

Dick was Officer in Command of the operation hence was in charge of the lies that were deliberately fed to prime time journalists for the evening news.

Monumental fuck up.

No she wasn't - when CDM was at large command was passed to SO19. And you're forgetting that the rumours that the guys who pulled the trigger were SAS and not police. That was never confirmed nor denied but if it were true it makes some sense. And the guy doing the surveillance wasn't police but military intelligence. Why?

Who will ever know? Ian Blair made sure of that.

Fretwired

Gassage said:

Fretwired said:

Gassage said:

Version of story as reported by eye-witnesses soon after the shooting was specifically rejected by the police spokesman in favour of a version where deMenezes wore a duffle coat, jumped the barrier and ran through the tube station.

All lies. I am not sure whether the Met ever actually withdrew this version.

Dick was Officer in Command of the operation hence was in charge of the lies that were deliberately fed to prime time journalists for the evening news.

Monumental fuck up.

No she wasn't - when CDM was at large command was passed to SO19. And you're forgetting that the rumours that the guys who pulled the trigger were SAS and not police. That was never confirmed nor denied but if it were true it makes some sense. And the guy doing the surveillance wasn't police but military intelligence. Why?

Who will ever know? Ian Blair made sure of that.

She didn't have authority to command firearms teams - it was outside her remit. That's handled by SO19. It even says command was passed in your link (above) detailing the cover up. Dick couldn't authorise a hit on anyone.

Gassage

Fretwired said:

Gassage said:

Fretwired said:

Gassage said:

Version of story as reported by eye-witnesses soon after the shooting was specifically rejected by the police spokesman in favour of a version where deMenezes wore a duffle coat, jumped the barrier and ran through the tube station.

All lies. I am not sure whether the Met ever actually withdrew this version.

Dick was Officer in Command of the operation hence was in charge of the lies that were deliberately fed to prime time journalists for the evening news.

Monumental fuck up.

No she wasn't - when CDM was at large command was passed to SO19. And you're forgetting that the rumours that the guys who pulled the trigger were SAS and not police. That was never confirmed nor denied but if it were true it makes some sense. And the guy doing the surveillance wasn't police but military intelligence. Why?

Who will ever know? Ian Blair made sure of that.

She didn't have authority to command firearms teams - it was outside her remit. That's handled by SO19. It even says command was passed in your link (above) detailing the cover up. Dick couldn't authorise a hit on anyone.

She was the designated Operation Kratos commander!

ICBM

This does make me uncomfortable regardless of how much direct responsibility she did or didn't have. She was in a command role in an operation which led to an innocent man being deliberately killed by state operatives, and which was then extensively covered up, lied about and obfuscated to the point that no-one has ever been held to account. I'm not sure that I could trust her version of events any more than those who said de Menezes jumped the ticket barrier, when it's been proven that he didn't. I didn't follow the inquest in detail, but it's far from unlikely that false evidence was used there too given that. The inquest jury was also forbidden to return a verdict of unlawful killing, but still returned the most critical one available to them.

All in all a totally disgraceful episode in the history of our supposedly free country, and for someone closely involved with it to be promoted to the highest police rank just smells bad.

Skipped

A caller to LBC is worrying that she might "freeze" if there is a terrorist incident in the capital......

What.....like those f*ckers in charge at Hillsborough did??

digitalscream

Gassage said:

@digitalscream Have a read of the layer upon layer of cover up

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Jean_Charles_de_Menezes

I've read that, along with the detailed inquest document.

Here's the thing - the logic for your determination of her guilt seems to go like this:

- She was in charge at one point of the operation
- We'll ignore the fact that she determined that he wasn't a threat (a fact supported by multiple pieces of evidence)
- A man was wrongfully shot later in the operation when she couldn't have had authority
- Therefore she must be guilty, sack her

Let's take another example...

- A man was at a house that might be suspect
- We'll ignore the fact that available information says he's not a suspect and that he didn't do anything suspicious
- Man gets on a train
- Man must be a threat, gets shot

Do you see why I have difficulty with this? Your logic for assigning guilt to her is disturbingly similar to that which got JCdM shot in the first place.

Skipped

She seems like a tough cookie.

Surely we will need a tough cookie if the police notice that the 30 people giving evidence to Operation Conifer are making identical claims to the claims made by "Nick".
And Operation Midland is then re-opened......

Fretwired

Gassage said:

Fretwired said:

Gassage said:

Fretwired said:

Gassage said:

Version of story as reported by eye-witnesses soon after the shooting was specifically rejected by the police spokesman in favour of a version where deMenezes wore a duffle coat, jumped the barrier and ran through the tube station.

All lies. I am not sure whether the Met ever actually withdrew this version.

Dick was Officer in Command of the operation hence was in charge of the lies that were deliberately fed to prime time journalists for the evening news.

Monumental fuck up.

No she wasn't - when CDM was at large command was passed to SO19. And you're forgetting that the rumours that the guys who pulled the trigger were SAS and not police. That was never confirmed nor denied but if it were true it makes some sense. And the guy doing the surveillance wasn't police but military intelligence. Why?

Who will ever know? Ian Blair made sure of that.

She didn't have authority to command firearms teams - it was outside her remit. That's handled by SO19. It even says command was passed in your link (above) detailing the cover up. Dick couldn't authorise a hit on anyone.

She was the designated Operation Kratos commander!

She was a Gold Commander - there will be more than one when Kratos is instigated. It is a matter of record that the shoot to kill decision wasn't hers. Kratos is less an operation and more a methodology for dealing with terrorist acts. A Kratos password should have been issued to the fire arms officers. None was. It makes me think they were SAS and under military control and not conversant with police procedure. There's a your cover up.

Fretwired

ICBM said:

All in all a totally disgraceful episode in the history of our supposedly free country, and for someone closely involved with it to be promoted to the highest police rank just smells bad.

I agree with this .. someone else should have been chosen.

Gassage

digitalscream said:

Gassage said:

@digitalscream Have a read of the layer upon layer of cover up

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Jean_Charles_de_Menezes

I've read that, along with the detailed inquest document.

Here's the thing - the logic for your determination of her guilt seems to go like this:

- She was in charge at one point of the operation
- We'll ignore the fact that she determined that he wasn't a threat (a fact supported by multiple pieces of evidence)
- A man was wrongfully shot later in the operation when she couldn't have had authority
- Therefore she must be guilty, sack her

Let's take another example...

- A man was at a house that might be suspect
- We'll ignore the fact that available information says he's not a suspect and that he didn't do anything suspicious
- Man gets on a train
- Man must be a threat, gets shot

Do you see why I have difficulty with this? Your logic for assigning guilt to her is disturbingly similar to that which got JCdM shot in the first place.

Directly quoted from the inquest:

As he arrived at Stockwell station another opportunity to stop Mr de Menezes before he went underground was missed. The gold commander in the control room, Cressida Dick, said that Mr de Menezes was to be stopped from getting on the Tube "at all costs", yet surveillance officers said they were never asked to stop and search Mr de Menezes outside – something they say they would have been able to do if asked. The jury said that the police's failure to use surveillance officers to intervene also contributed to his death.

Gassage

@fretwired It is a matter of record she personally said he was 'to be stopped at all costs.'

I fail to see what part of that is hard to understand?

Fretwired

Directly quoted from the inquest:

As he arrived at Stockwell station another opportunity to stop Mr de Menezes before he went underground was missed. The gold commander in the control room, Cressida Dick, said that Mr de Menezes was to be stopped from getting on the Tube "at all costs", yet surveillance officers said they were never asked to stop and search Mr de Menezes outside – something they say they would have been able to do if asked. The jury said that the police's failure to use surveillance officers to intervene also contributed to his death.

You're second guessing what went one with a single quote. Stockwell station was closed so he couldn't get on the tube so they wouldn't have been disobeying an order. The surveillance guys were unarmed. If he was a terrorist he might be armed - they could trigger an incident in which innocent people might die. Where was the armed response unit?

Now this is supposition on my part, but until you see all the evidence you cannot be fully informed. A jury acquitted her so in my book she's innocent. I wouldn't have appointed her as Met Police chief due to the controversy that would be caused.

mgaw

its always easier with hindsight, the cover up was an outrage, not being "on the ground" during that time I have no idea what it was like for the people charged with stopping another attack.  You would think it was very stressful and for whatever reason someone with a gun must have thought he was potentially another attacker.

Bearing that in mind the devasting nature of the killing of CDM was to prevent him setting of a bomb...anyhow a total tragedy for him and his family and dare i say those directly involved in shooting him

Gassage

Fretwired said:

You're second guessing what went one with a single quote. Stockwell station was closed so he couldn't get on the tube so they wouldn't have been disobeying an order. The surveillance guys were unarmed. If he was a terrorist he might be armed - they could trigger an incident in which innocent people might die. Where was the armed response unit?

Now this is supposition on my part, but until you see all the evidence you cannot be fully informed. A jury acquitted her so in my book she's innocent. I wouldn't have appointed her as Met Police chief due to the controversy that would be caused.

No. You are failing to see the relevence of key evidence.

Another point; she never stood trial! No-one ever did, other than an inquest, which is not a criminal trial, so how this jury aquitted HER is beyond me?

In point of fact when she gave evidence, she did so under the explicit caveat that she was NOT facing criminal charges.

They did, FYI, find the Met guilty of a lack of DoC to JCdM.

jellyroll

She's innocent. But it's a politically insensitive appointment.