What have I done? Guitar sounds awful..

ICBM

robgilmo said:

I read this and it would seem its a good idea to have the strings a little proud of the nut, is that the case or is that more for acoustic guitars?

Contrary to popular belief it makes no difference at all. No part of the nut which is above the halfway point on the string diameter can possibly touch the string, so it doesn't matter how tall it is above that.

It can feel a bit odd when playing in the first position if the side of your index finger touches the nut, but that's all.

Maynehead

robgilmo said:

Thanks for the input guys, Ill order up a new nut for it. Any recommendations? Its 42 mm with 34 string spacing.
What kind of work will a new pre cut nut need? I can borrow a set of files. Unfortunately the tech I know and trust lives in the far side of London so it might be that Ill be doing this myself. At least if I fluff it up I have only myself to blame. I'm aware that the angle from nut to tuning peg is an issue, anyone want to talk me through it? 

If you get a pre-cut nut you don't need to work on the slots at all. You just need to grind down the bottom of the nut by sliding it over a flat file, until it's the right height.

Then affix the nut using a couple of very small dabs of wood glue.

robgilmo

Ive read good things about these.
PQL-5000-00   http://www.graphtech.com/products/brands/tusq-xl/product-detail-tusq-xl/tusq-xl-fender-style-slotted-nut?id=58a88162-2bf4-4d2d-8e98-ba973cdd6941

Its 42.93 mm , my nut is 42 , E to E is 35.05 mm , mine measures around 35.5 , Ive read over on the Squire talk forum that the radius is 9.5'' which is the same as my neck, looks like it might fit then. Providing the old one comes off with no dramas I don't see too much of a problem cracking on with this.

Brize

FelineGuitars said:

Brize said:

robgilmo said:

It was left on the guitar and he filed down each individual groove

You wanted to lower the action at the nut and he thought the best way to achieve that would be to file down each nut slot?

That is generally the way it is done unless there is a lot to remove.

Please be sure you never do that to any of my guitars, Jon!

ICBM

Maynehead said:

If you get a pre-cut nut you don't need to work on the slots at all. You just need to grind down the bottom of the nut by sliding it over a flat file, until it's the right height.

That's never true in my experience, unless you aren't very fussy about how accurate the nut height is. A pre-cut nut does a lot of the work for you and saves time, but it doesn't remove the need to accurately cut each groove to the right depth.

Brize said:

Please be sure you never do that to any of my guitars, Jon!

I'm curious as to why. It is the *correct* method.

For one thing, it's impossible to get the string height exactly right on all six strings unless you do. If you only take material off from the bottom you're limited to averaging it across all six.

The grooves must have been cut in the first place too, so what's the difference between that and making them deeper?

If you really don't want it done then it would be unwise to take your guitar to any luthier for any nut work, ever...

robgilmo

So I've removed the old nut and placed the new one on, strings are tuned, capo on third fret, what kind of clearance should I be aiming for on the first? I've got a tight 0.20 mm on the top E bass side and a not so tight 0.20 on the bottom E treble side,

Bridgehouse

robgilmo said:

So I've removed the old nut and placed the new one on, strings are tuned, capo on third fret, what kind of clearance should I be aiming for on the first? I've got a tight 0.20 mm on the top E bass side and a not so tight 0.20 on the bottom E treble side,

You got feeler gauges?

robgilmo

Neck relief is 0.25 mm

Bridgehouse

robgilmo said:

Neck relief is 0.25 mm

If you're lucky you might squeeze the relief down to .20 mm - what radius is the board?

ICBM

robgilmo said:

So I've removed the old nut and placed the new one on, strings are tuned, capo on third fret, what kind of clearance should I be aiming for on the first? I've got a tight 0.20 mm on the top E bass side and a not so tight 0.20 on the bottom E treble side,

You should be aiming for between about 1/10th and 1/4 of the string diameter on each string - ie .001"-.002" (.025mm-.05mm) on the top E and roughly .004"-.01" (.10mm to .20mm on the bottom E) - towards the lower end of that range on the heavier strings unless you really thrash them.

Basically, tiny - Rizla-paper thickness. It may even be hard to see the gap when it's right, unless you tap the string up and down onto the fret so you can see it move.

Bridgehouse

I do the string tap thing - and sometimes get one of the wafer thin feeler gauges under there. 

Little bit at a time so you don't go too far

richardhomer

robgilmo said:

So I've removed the old nut and placed the new one on, strings are tuned, capo on third fret, what kind of clearance should I be aiming for on the first? I've got a tight 0.20 mm on the top E bass side and a not so tight 0.20 on the bottom E treble side,

You should be able to gently tap each string on to the first fret. 0.2mm is probably okay - but with a proper set of nut files, you could probably go lower.

robgilmo

This is with the capo on the third, yes? Thing is I'm getting buzz somewhere on the lower frets on the low E , my action is 1.3 mm at the 12th on this string. Doing the string tap thing, capo on 3rd it does look like I have more clearance on the treble side.

robgilmo

The board radius is 9.5, the new nut seems very close if not spot on 9.5

Bridgehouse

robgilmo said:

The board radius is 9.5, the new nut seems very close if not spot on 9.5

You may get away with .2mm relief. Go slow and get the nut right then try relief again.

Brize

ICBM said:

Brize said:

Please be sure you never do that to any of my guitars, Jon!

I'm curious as to why. It is the *correct* method.

For one thing, it's impossible to get the string height exactly right on all six strings unless you do. If you only take material off from the bottom you're limited to averaging it across all six.

The grooves must have been cut in the first place too, so what's the difference between that and making them deeper?

If you really don't want it done then it would be unwise to take your guitar to any luthier for any nut work, ever...

All sound points - I was just joking with Jon. My point is that, if you want the string height at the nut lowered that much, you need to take a fair amount off the bottom, no?

ICBM

Brize said:

All sound points - I was just joking with Jon. My point is that, if you want the nut lowered that much, you need to take a fair amount off the bottom, no?

Sorry, I missed the joke .

Yes, if there's a lot to remove on all six strings it's quicker, easier and better to work out how much and take nearly all of it off the bottom first.

...or in the case of the bass I just did for UnclePsychosis, the factory hadn't cut the slot in the fingerboard deep enough on one side, but luckily I spotted that before I got the nut files out!

robgilmo

Guys, just to be clear, bottom E is treble side?

ICBM

robgilmo said:

Guys, just to be clear, bottom E is treble side?

No. Bottom E is the thick one . Which is at the top when you're playing it...

robgilmo

Bugger, it would seem my bottom E was closer than my top E, I cant really fix that now, bottom e is around 0.05, capo on 3rd, a little loose with the feeler under it but the next one up is 0.20 and that lifts the string. Bottom e is , well pretty much the same, I'm not going any closer I don't think.