Where do you stand on the Junior Doctors' strikes ?

Emp_Fab · April 2016

Junior Doctors are set for a series of short strikes - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35982080

Do you support their right to withdraw their labour or do you think emergency services staff such as doctors, fire crews etc should not be allowed to strike ?

GavRichList · April 2016

As an Orthopaedic Waiting List Manager, it's causing me a lot of work!

UnclePsychosis · April 2016

They've been forced into it, I can't blame them. Hunt is a cretin.

Richardj · April 2016

Would you be happy if you had a new contract imposed on you that forced longer working hours and effectively put your pay at not much more than the National Living Wage?

Why would you want to invest all of that time and money at university for that?

Perhaps we would be better off employing agency medical staff through agencies which actually cost more, the reason being there aren't enough medical staff because..... there doesn't seem to be an incentive for people to become medical staff.

I'm also not sure police, fire, or doctors have ever withdrawn emergency services either.

Flink_Poyd · April 2016

Yes I support their right to strike. It annoys me how the press always trot out the "leaving the sick and vulnerable patients......" as if none of them care, which I'm sure the majority do or they wouldn't be there. Unfortunately the NHS is a failing system and I wonder how long it can keep creaking at the seams before breaking completely.

I don't think anyone should be exempt from making a protest about their job regardless of where they work

ICBM · April 2016

What else can they do when their employer absolutely point blank will not negotiate reasonably?

Any issue which gets 98% of a very highly educated, motivated and generally intelligent workforce to decide that temporarily going against their most basic principles is the only way to get themselves listened to, makes me support them 100%.

TTony · April 2016

I think that tackling the root problems afflicting the NHS and the constraints under which it has to work would be far more beneficial to the service that it provides than initiating a fight based on political dogma with its staff.

And by "staff", I really don't care whether it's the Junior Doctors, Consultants, nursing staff, porters or the cleaners.

This dispute isn't about contractual terms for Junior Doctors, that's merely the excuse.

Unfortunately, governments are generally much better at initiating disputes based on political dogma than they are at tackling difficult and complex problems in high profile services.

I hear all the rhetoric, all the soundbites, all the argument. Who's right and who's wrong? Who would you trust - a politician, or a doctor?

chillidoggy · April 2016

TTony said:

Who would you trust - a politician, or a doctor?

Neither.

Moe_Zambeek · April 2016

I have to be honest and say I think there is blame on all sides. I don't trust the politicians, I don't trust the medical union and I don't trust the media reporting either.

Steffo · April 2016

Hunt hasn't covered himself in glory, pretty poor, but...

I have a massive problem with all this striking business. If you work in the private sector and you don't like it you either take it (and shut up) or leave. Why is it so different for people working for the NHS, public transport etc.?

Don't like it? Go find a job somewhere else like everybody else. If I was a junior doctor I would do exactly that. Supply and demand.

thecolourbox · April 2016

This is a genuine question and not meant to be as sarky as it will sound, but where else can junior doctors get a job in that line of work after investing their time and money to get to that point?

I also kind of think that those with the control over this in government want it to fail, so the sixties leaving would actually play right into their hands so they can then say "see nobody wants to be doctors, the NHS has failed, we must privatise it"

EricTheWeary · April 2016

Abroad, private sector. I'm not sure it's good to invest heavily in training doctors to have them all go work elsewhere in the world.

Steffo said:

Hunt hasn't covered himself in glory, pretty poor, but...
I have a massive problem with all this striking business. If you work in the private sector and you don't like it you either take it (and shut up) or leave. Why is it so different for people working for the NHS, public transport etc.?
Don't like it? Go find a job somewhere else like everybody else. If I was a junior doctor I would do exactly that. Supply and demand.

people have the right to strike in the private sector. However, it isn't a government level crisis if people making sausage rolls go on strike.

TTony · April 2016

thecolourbox said:

This is a genuine question and not meant to be as sarky as it will sound, but where else can junior doctors get a job in that line of work after investing their time and money to get to that point?

Abroad.

mellowsun · April 2016

Some doctors are in favor of this deal, it has to be said. Those doctors who work normal office hours (they do exist!) will be better off. Unfortunately, those who do shifts are screwed, hence the strike.

Sambostar · April 2016

Don't really know enough facts about it. I guess they are on the front line and work a 168 hours week with no toilet breaks for £3 an hour so I'm told but they are on the front line.

It's the GP's that get my goat. Blair never should have given them that deal. 2 day week they work around here for £90k. They need another GP and can't even attract one at that salary working a two day week other than some reject who was almost struck off for negligence/incompetence. It does beggar belief.

After Blair there is a legacy of expectance in the public sector and higher education that doesn't sit well with me, equally well they should fight for their hours and pay at weekends or whatever. Higher education expectations and public sector expectations are settling down a bit elsewhere.

It's all about what you have come to expect/take for granted and house prices which equals cost of living. I wouldn't mind taking the consultant who saw me about my back out in my Transit for a weeks work at a tenth of the pay, it would probably kill her.

I really don't mind a private health service, if it would work, but look at the models in America, it doesn't really work does it? It's just as flawed as a system as health practices compete. If you ask most people who could afford it they wouldn't mind paying a supplement of they got decent care at the NHS, as you do with Dentists, if you are lucky enough to find space on their lists.

Call me cynical and nihilistic though, but unless I get hit by a crane the only time I am going to the hospital is when my stools come out all black and I've only got a few weeks left.

I think the doctors and the politicians all need a reality check and meet somewhere in the middle perhaps.

Steffo · April 2016

EricTheWeary said:

Abroad, private sector. I'm not sure it's good to invest heavily in training doctors to have them all go work elsewhere in the world.

Steffo said:

Hunt hasn't covered himself in glory, pretty poor, but...
I have a massive problem with all this striking business. If you work in the private sector and you don't like it you either take it (and shut up) or leave. Why is it so different for people working for the NHS, public transport etc.?
Don't like it? Go find a job somewhere else like everybody else. If I was a junior doctor I would do exactly that. Supply and demand.

people have the right to strike in the private sector. However, it isn't a government level crisis if people making sausage rolls go on strike.

In theory. If I was to say anything more than " I don't like" I would be on the street double quick. How bloody fair is that? All or nobody for me. But having been given the boot before in a very unfair way with nothing I could do about it maybe I am biased...

EricTheWeary · April 2016

Steffo;1039739" said:
EricTheWeary said:

Abroad, private sector. I'm not sure it's good to invest heavily in training doctors to have them all go work elsewhere in the world.

Steffo said:

Hunt hasn't covered himself in glory, pretty poor, but...I have a massive problem with all this striking business. If you work in the private sector and you don't like it you either take it (and shut up) or leave. Why is it so different for people working for the NHS, public transport etc.? Don't like it? Go find a job somewhere else like everybody else. If I was a junior doctor I would do exactly that. Supply and demand.

people have the right to strike in the private sector. However, it isn't a government level crisis if people making sausage rolls go on strike.

In theory. If I was to say anything more than " I don't like" I would be on the street double quick.

How bloody fair is that? All or nobody for me. But having been given the boot before in a very unfair way with nothing I could do about it maybe I am biased...

That would be unfair dismissal and you could take them to court.
A qualified doctor is a highly educated and skilled person, the equivalent in private industry are usually well looked after and they can move between employers to get the best deal. Junior doctors can't really do that as the NHS has a near monopoly on employing them.

UnclePsychosis · April 2016

Steffo;1039654" said:
Hunt hasn't covered himself in glory, pretty poor, but...I have a massive problem with all this striking business. If you work in the private sector and you don't like it you either take it (and shut up) or leave. Why is it so different for people working for the NHS, public transport etc.? Don't like it? Go find a job somewhere else like everybody else. If I was a junior doctor I would do exactly that. Supply and demand.

I work in the private sector, am in a union, and have voted on strike action in the past.

I find this whole "I let my employer shaft me, so everyone else should let theirs shaft them" attitude utterly bizarre. It's not a race to the bottom.

You're right, though, that many junior doctors will leave if this goes through. The point is that they're fully aware of just how shafted the NHS will be if that happens and are doing what they can to prevent it. Surprisingly enough lots of Doctors actually believe in the principles of the NHS and would like to protect it.

Steffo · April 2016

I would agree with you with the exception that we are now in a global economy, people can move between countries for work fairly easily if highly skilled like doctors, engineers and scientists. Don't get me wrong, Hunt is having a laugh but strikes affect only people that need treatment, not that tosser.

tabbycat · April 2016

it's heartwarming to see british workers standing up to a bullying government hellbent on destroying their industry (the jewel in the crown of the british social welfare system) in pursuit of asset stripping it and selling it off to their mates.

the best piece i have read so far re the current crisis in the nhs, written by dr bob gill. the full inside story, explained in terms and concepts easy for someone not working within the nhs to understand (jargon-busted), with tons of informative links if you want to go into more depth.

http://koshh.org/the-connection-between-the-junior-doctors-contract-and-the-american-corporate-takeover-of-the-nhs

by far the best documentary (50mins) about the current crisis in the nhs is 'sell off'.
trailer here:
full documentary here:

forewarned is forearmed. fight for your nhs.

John_P · April 2016

UnclePsychosis said:

Steffo;1039654" said:
Hunt hasn't covered himself in glory, pretty poor, but...I have a massive problem with all this striking business. If you work in the private sector and you don't like it you either take it (and shut up) or leave. Why is it so different for people working for the NHS, public transport etc.? Don't like it? Go find a job somewhere else like everybody else. If I was a junior doctor I would do exactly that. Supply and demand.
I work in the private sector, am in a union, and have voted on strike action in the past.

I find this whole "I let my employer shaft me, so everyone else should let theirs shaft them" attitude utterly bizarre. It's not a race to the bottom.

You're right, though, that many junior doctors will leave if this goes through. The point is that they're fully aware of just how shafted the NHS will be if that happens and are doing what they can to prevent it. Surprisingly enough lots of Doctors actually believe in the principles of the NHS and would like to protect it.

Totally agree with this. Those professions where the unions "lost" in the past and now have little power see people having a harder time with little they can do about it when unwelcome changes are introduced. I wish more people were able to stand up for what they believe in instead having to take it.

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Where do you stand on the Junior Doctors' strikes ?

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