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A strong leader, maybe.
I think the only reason a brutal leader needs to be brutal is that their brutality would be grounds for the populace to topple them from power if they ever let up with their brutality - I mean, the brutality is only there to keep these people in power, not as some "necessary evil" that the population needs.
Came across this video the other day, seems relevant here;
Bandcamp
Spotify, Apple et al
people who remember thatcher as 'great' usually turn out to be those who got a state-funded doggy treat from her (at great long-term public expense) in the form of a cheap council house (vote-for-us) bribe, get-rich-quick shares from underpriced floatations of public-owned companies, or other unearned financial benefits from the fake boom she created by deregulating the stock market & fincial services.
public owned council houses, sold off to private owners. a third of which are now private investment schemes (private aka buy-to-let & offshore owned consortiums) draining billions out of the welfare budget, when once that was money coming in to reinvest in public housing.
public owned gas, sold off to private shareholders.
public owned water, sold off to private shareholders.
public owned telecoms, sold off to private shareholders.
& on & on & on.
property everyone owned, which they & their parents & grandparents had invested in through taxes on the public-spirited basis it would remain in public hands for the benefit of everyone for generations to come (the terms on which people like bevin established these things), decanted into private portfolios & offshore consortiums to create short-term bubbles to keep mercenary brits feeling rich & voting for the tories. without them (tories or their followers) ever having to create anything that generated real or sustainable value.
cunt thatcher & her merry band of tory thieves were a disaster for the country. unmitigated.
closely followed by the damage inflicted by blair & new labour, who were basically tories in red ties (post ditching clause4 & embracing free-market fundamentalism). thatcher described tony blair & new labour as her her greatest achievement for that very reason.
the rise of corbyn & allies is supposed to challenging that blairite new labour mentality, but it's still early days & too many vested interests by now (on both sides of the house, business & the media) to allow that to happen without a long & bloody struggle.
as for churchill, he was a feisty orator & neo-imperialist fantasist, much like hitler to be fair.
but as others have already said, what he was about really only served a useful purpose in a wartime context.
peacetime the public promptly dumped him & his stroppy tory meanness in all things civic (he was anti-nhs & anti investment in general education) for attlee, a far more stable & humane socialist character.
Thatcher was a cunt. Some of you are too young to have lived through her reign.
she fucked up so many peoples life's.
"ding dong the witch is dead."
how many politicians have street party's celebrating their death.
Ironic that this thread is about great leaders. There's no need for a long and bloody struggle, in fact it's this mentality that's at the root of all the left's problems now if you ask me. Struggle against what? The only way you get elected is through leadership. You inspire your party with your vision. Your gravitas carries your message to the electorate and people vote for you. What the other lot are up to is irrelevant, you have to lead your party to convince people that *your* way is the one.
Blair knew it, that's why he's the only Labour PM we've had in four decades. We're not allowed to mention his name now though, because he's Hitler and any of the multitude of good things he achieved have to be erased from history never to be learned from because he eats kittens for breakfast and kicks old grannies when no one's looking or whatever it is he does.
Look, I don't like some of what Blair did any more than the next man but he's 100x the leader that soppy old twat Corbyn ever will be.
Until the left has leaders like those of old we're going nowhere.
I'm waiting for Blair ... there should be a big party in Iraq ..
Remember, it's easier to criticise than create!
The problem was that we needed a sensible Labour government, or at least a coalition government with the Liberals / SDP whatever they were at the time, at the 1987 election as two terms of Thatcher would have been enough.
“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.”
Revising for exams through the winter of discontent with power cuts brought about by striking miners and power workers. Walking through piles of rubbish as the refuse workers were on strike. The UK was an utter shithole in the early 70s.
Labour were so unpopular the Tories could have put a strategically shaved monkey in a suit as their leader and people will have voted for them.
Remember, it's easier to criticise than create!
Or, put another way...the grown-ups are trying to have a balanced, civil discussion here. If you can't manage that, kindly stay out of the thread.
And Kennedy. He was a decent bloke. Lots of decent Liberals.
Trading feedback: http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/72424/
Remember, it's easier to criticise than create!
Thatcher also had better spin doctors/marketing such as the bullshit about her being some 'umble daughter of a struggling hard grafting shop keeper when in fact the reality was her dad owned the two main large grocers shops in Grantham employing multiple staff and was very influential on the local council, masons and Conservative party.
Remember, it's easier to criticise than create!
Thatcher was born into far better conditions than a large amount of people at the time who survived on low paid work living in rented poor quality accomodation. The 'flat' she grew up in was pretty much the size of a house placed on top of the shop her dad owned. Her dad was also the Mayor at one point, a position likely not that open to many at the time.
The point is that an image was created of a poor little girl living in one room above a grocers shop that her dad ran all hours single handly when that was far from the reality. In fact Thatcher had no more impoverished upbringing than Harold Wilson and could have been classed lower middle class.
I remember about the allegations .. didn't Private Eye run some stuff about him called the Rotten Borough ..
Remember, it's easier to criticise than create!
Not sure about Private Eye, Punch did publish some allegations - something details here http://www.independent.co.uk/news/thatchers-dad-mayor-preacher-groper-1257249.html .
Remember, it's easier to criticise than create!