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I've come across some good ones as well though.
I'm with you on that, I've bought Gibson's blind, I've bought them cheap so not paid attention to them when looking over, but I've honestly never played one that didn't do exactly what I expected it to.
It's because they live on the heritage of old guitar designs and keep rehashing the same old thing every year, they never make anything new or progress.
Or
OMG Gibson have released a new model, it's nothing like a Les Paul/SG what were they thinking, why don't they stick to their classic models, that's what people want.
The reason changes depending if a new model has been released or not that month.
Also everyone's £200 Epiphone/tokai/ESP/Harley Benton plays better if you believe them.
Btw, that new Les with the pedal built in is a pretty awful idea.... and don't get me started on the Firebird X...... I'm no Gibson fan boy but I think they can never win. It's not like with Marshall where they just blatantly ignore what everyone wants.
The yard is nothing but a fence, the sun just hurts my eyes...
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
I have no issue with Gibson releasing anLP Std style guitar with modern locking tuners, easy access neck/body join, fast neck profile and coil tap options - BUT DON'T CALL IT AN LP STANDARD - call it an LP Modern or similar - We all know what an LP Standard is, so just make the best classic LP Standard you can for 2Kish - a market exists for both but at what proportion I don't know - And DON'T CHANGE THE WHOLE CATALOGUE EVERY 12 MONTHS - You could easily introduce Ltd Ed models based on 'regular catalogue' models throughout the year - Be it based on a limited run of colours, quilt tops, upgrade p/ups, even a VOS or aged finish etc etc, and these runs are required to supplement the core line but DON'T CHANGE THE WHOLE CATALOGUE
The yard is nothing but a fence, the sun just hurts my eyes...
The yard is nothing but a fence, the sun just hurts my eyes...
If you're a buyer who isn't clued up on this and all the year-model nonsense, and you want a Les Paul Standard, when you go to a shop to buy a Les Paul Standard then that is what you should get - the same spec as a Standard always was, just not necessarily made with the same level of purist accuracy as a Historic.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Only two things are infinite - the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
The issue with all the swapping and muddying the waters is corporate ownership I reckon, trying to get owner of one guitar to buy more, by changing shit all the time. Or enticing new buyers into a sale without them realising it's not what they thought they were buying. Don't know if you watched Tim and Petes guitar show on the death of the electric guitar article but they were on about something similar.
Gibson will end up being sold off and return to smaller scale manufacturing more akin to a Suhr or PRS in the end I think. With a core line as suggested by you and G4U, and then smaller scale limiteds trading off their history.
The yard is nothing but a fence, the sun just hurts my eyes...
I fully appreciate you can't undermine the Custom Shop/Vintage/Historic Collection models - But a limited run from time to time of an LP Std with say MHS pick-ups is one option with an R9 wiring loom - Next time might be an LP Std with an aged VOS S/burst finish - next time an LP Standard with correct vintage hardware inc ABR-1 etc - You can't add all on one guitar, partly as cost will make it crazy money and as I mentioned before you can't invade the lucrative R9 market
Granted run a Modern LP with all the gizmo's that today's player might require and again offer select limited runs from time to time
Apply such principles to the SG and 335 models etc etc
The Gibson range is now structured to extract as much from the market as possible, which means (IMHO) that they care rather less about making the mainstream guitars very well. (Why bother when a little bit of effort puts out a limited edition at a markup far beyond the production models?)
There are compromises, such as fret-nib-binding, multi-piece backs, veneers, etc on all but the top-dollar Tokais. But they're easy to live with except for bragging rights.
At the moment I'm looking for:
* Hamer Watson, SS2, Vintage S, T62.
* Music Man Luke 1, Luke II
Please drop me a message.
There's a bit of bragging rights and self affirmation with this whole Japanese LP is better than a real Gibson malarkey, look at my post above. Is one individual Tokai (or other) guitar potentially better than one individual Gibson, of course as Gibson have built some real dogs, hence the suggestion to try them out. Part of the reason the reputation for the Japanese ones exists is because of the lawsuit guitars from the 70's, when Gibson were churning out shite they were the best option at the time. That's not the case so much anymore.
The yard is nothing but a fence, the sun just hurts my eyes...
I've owned a Japanese Tokai. I much prefer the Gibson I have now. On the other hand, there are definitely some Gibsons that were worse than the Tokai. Mine was from the lower/middle part of the Japanese range. I don't know how the high end ones compare, but if I'm spending that kind of money on something that is not a Gibson I'd look at a PRS Singlecut 245 or 594, or something like a Feline.
You go round the blokes house to see it and notice his Gibson Les Paul standard.. "How much for the Gibson?"
"The Gibson is NOT for sale!"
Except you missed the part where I said £ for £. I've owned three Tokai Love Rocks (LS-50, LS-75 and LS-320) and something like 8 Gibson Les Pauls, from vintage, through Classics to Custom Shop. I've still got three Gibsons. I've also got a high-end replica.
When considering the same cost, the Gibsons are nowhere.
The bit I've put in bold shows how strong your bias is. Instead of bothering to find out how good/bad a high-end Tokai is, you prefer to remain ignorant. Not sure how that attitude helps inform the thread!