Nazi Pug owner fined £800

Teetonetal · April 2018

VimFuego said:

good question again (will watch the vid later, bit short on time but i generally like Stuart Lee and have a lot of time for him) I would say that in this instance, clearly it is a joke. In poor taste, and IMO not massively funny, but clearly a joke. How about when Prince Harry dressed up as a nazi for a fancy dress party, do we consider that a joke? It was in poor taste, but was it offensive? I personally find it to be offensive, but does that mean he should be prosecuted (well, clearly I think he should because that would be fking hilarious but I digress). Despite it being offensive, I don't think it's a matter for the courts, no one was actually harmed by it, no one was inspired to desecrate jewish graves because of it. I guess my rambling point is that we need to consider context, but also outcomes. What was the actual outcome of what was said.

Dressing up as a Nazi is poor taste and for a Royal of German decent unquestionably a dumb thing to to, but not offensive by itself. For example how about the actors in 'allo 'allo that clearly dressed as Gestapo and Nazi officers? Dressing up a Nazi, going to a Synagogue and shouting Gas the Jews at the top of your voice, directly at the Jewish, or giving a talk in a school about why it's a good thing to Gas Jews, these are hate crimes and offensive. This is why context is so important.

the contecxt of this youtube video is that he was trying to annoy his girlfriend (and she doesn't need to subscribe to his channel to see the result or be annoyed by it) in what he thought was a funny way. He wasn't intending to incite hate and he wasn't preaching hate. The difference is huge.

antifash · April 2018

digitalscream said:

MattBanshee said:

The owner is a bonafide nazi too though.

Based on what? How many videos of his have you watched? Because if you've watched any (including the one at the centre of this), you'd realise that the whole point is that he's the opposite of a "bonafide nazi". He's said again and again that the "Nazi" approach was taken because it's the most offensive thing he could think of.

MattBanshee said:

He was chumming up with Tommy Robinson at the court case.

I didn't realise that associating with somebody who holds views you don't like means that you automatically hold those views too. When did that rule come into effect?

MattBanshee said:

Also, I have a pug and they are dumb as a bag of rocks. To train it to do something like that would involve loads and loads of repeated practice and training, so it would have taken a huge amount of effort for something that is supposed to be 'just a joke'.

That's part of the joke, that he was willing to go to such lengths. Also, roughly half of dogs are more intelligent than the average for their breed, by definition.

You’re an idiot.

antifash · April 2018

In fact, this site is still riddled with moronic cunts. Ban me please. Thanks.

Bucket · April 2018

antifash said:

In fact, this site is still riddled with moronic cunts. Ban me please. Thanks.

Hahahahaha.

webrthomson · April 2018

antifash said:

In fact, this site is still riddled with moronic cunts. Ban me please. Thanks.

“I wholly disapprove of what you say and will defend to the death your right to say it.”
(Voltaire)

Heartfeltdawn · April 2018

VimFuego said:
good question again (will watch the vid later, bit short on time but i generally like Stuart Lee and have a lot of time for him) I would say that in this instance, clearly it is a joke. In poor taste, and IMO not massively funny, but clearly a joke. How about when Prince Harry dressed up as a nazi for a fancy dress party, do we consider that a joke? It was in poor taste, but was it offensive? I personally find it to be offensive, but does that mean he should be prosecuted (well, clearly I think he should because that would be fking hilarious but I digress). Despite it being offensive, I don't think it's a matter for the courts, no one was actually harmed by it, no one was inspired to desecrate jewish graves because of it. I guess my rambling point is that we need to consider context, but also outcomes. What was the actual outcome of what was said.

Context is everything yet context is so infrequently referenced in these debates.

Prince Harry dresses up as a Nazi for a party = clearly not offensive. It's a fucking party, he's not going to a KKK rally.

However if Prince Harry dresses up as a Nazi on Holocaust Memorial Day and attends a service = then the context clearly allows for some to be offended by his lack of tact and decency.

Outcomes is a harder one. Would we have to assess Helter Skelter by the Beatles because of what happened with Charles Manson referencing the song?

Heartfeltdawn · April 2018

Bucket said:

Grumpyrocker said:

Some of you should read the actual judgement. He wasn't convicted for "a joke" or anything to do with the dog. He didn't himself offer a free speech defence - nor did his "annoying the girlfriend" defence work as she didn't even follow his youtube channel.

He was convicted for repeating the phrase "gas the jews", the dog doesn't matter one bit in this.

But the point I'm trying to make is that he WAS convicted for a joke.

If the video was just him saying "gas the Jews", then of course prosecution is very much justified. But it wasn't - there was all that context put in place around it, so that any viewer with two brain cells to rub together would get that it was a joke. He's not inciting racial hatred - if anything, the people being mocked most of all here are actually Nazis.

Absolutely. Context is everything. Which is why I have to take the conext of Mr Dankula's video interview with Tommy Robinson and the crowd on Youtube commenting underneath into consideration in the same way that I judge the Zionist Foundation when they got Katie Hopkins to speak at an event.

It's fucking puzzling though that Mr Dankula is now the poster boy for freedom of speech activists when you have a man in this country who has been under a barrage of abuse and criticism for saying what he thinks about Israel.

Still, we now have Mr Dankula to help us through the moral maze, our very own Djent Yiannopoulos.

digitalscream · April 2018

antifash said:

digitalscream said:

MattBanshee said:

The owner is a bonafide nazi too though.

Based on what? How many videos of his have you watched? Because if you've watched any (including the one at the centre of this), you'd realise that the whole point is that he's the opposite of a "bonafide nazi". He's said again and again that the "Nazi" approach was taken because it's the most offensive thing he could think of.

MattBanshee said:

He was chumming up with Tommy Robinson at the court case.

I didn't realise that associating with somebody who holds views you don't like means that you automatically hold those views too. When did that rule come into effect?

MattBanshee said:

Also, I have a pug and they are dumb as a bag of rocks. To train it to do something like that would involve loads and loads of repeated practice and training, so it would have taken a huge amount of effort for something that is supposed to be 'just a joke'.

That's part of the joke, that he was willing to go to such lengths. Also, roughly half of dogs are more intelligent than the average for their breed, by definition.

You’re an idiot.

And you're very close to a cooler session for a direct ad-hominem attack on an admin.

You won't go to jail or pay a fine, though.

You see how freedom of expression works yet?

Heartfeltdawn · April 2018

digitalscream said:
And you're very close to a cooler session for a direct ad-hominem attack on an admin.

You won't go to jail or pay a fine, though.

You see how freedom of expression works yet?

CUCK!

VimFuego · April 2018

antifash said:

In fact, this site is still riddled with moronic cunts. Ban me please. Thanks.

lol, what's up snowflake, someone say your trigger word? I'm sure you can retreat to your safespace and a nice person will bring you a warm drink and some cookies.

VimFuego · April 2018

Teetonetal said:

VimFuego said:

good question again (will watch the vid later, bit short on time but i generally like Stuart Lee and have a lot of time for him) I would say that in this instance, clearly it is a joke. In poor taste, and IMO not massively funny, but clearly a joke. How about when Prince Harry dressed up as a nazi for a fancy dress party, do we consider that a joke? It was in poor taste, but was it offensive? I personally find it to be offensive, but does that mean he should be prosecuted (well, clearly I think he should because that would be fking hilarious but I digress). Despite it being offensive, I don't think it's a matter for the courts, no one was actually harmed by it, no one was inspired to desecrate jewish graves because of it. I guess my rambling point is that we need to consider context, but also outcomes. What was the actual outcome of what was said.

Dressing up as a Nazi is poor taste and for a Royal of German decent unquestionably a dumb thing to to, but not offensive by itself. For example how about the actors in 'allo 'allo that clearly dressed as Gestapo and Nazi officers? Dressing up a Nazi, going to a Synagogue and shouting Gas the Jews at the top of your voice, directly at the Jewish, or giving a talk in a school about why it's a good thing to Gas Jews, these are hate crimes and offensive. This is why context is so important.

the contecxt of this youtube video is that he was trying to annoy his girlfriend (and she doesn't need to subscribe to his channel to see the result or be annoyed by it) in what he thought was a funny way. He wasn't intending to incite hate and he wasn't preaching hate. The difference is huge.

erm, I think we're in agreement as you're pretty much saying what I said.

EricTheWeary · April 2018

The Dead Kennedys predicted how to deal with this situation back in 1981:

Pugs ain't no religious cult
Pugs means thinking for yourself
You ain't hardcore 'cause you spike your hair
When a jock still lives inside your head

Nazi pugs
Nazi pugs
Nazi pugs, fuck off!
Nazi pugs
Nazi pugs
Nazi pugs, fuck off!

If you've come to fight, get outta here
You ain't no better than the bouncers
We ain't trying to be police
When you ape the cops it ain't anarchy

Nazi pugs
Nazi pugs
Nazi pugs, fuck off!
Nazi pugs
Nazi pugs
Nazi pugs, fuck off!

Ten guys jump one, what a man
You fight each other, the police state wins
Stab your backs when you trash our halls
Trash a bank if you've got real balls

You still think swastikas look cool
The real Nazis run your schools
They're coaches, businessmen and cops
In a real fourth Reich you'll be the first to go

Nazi pugs
Nazi pugs
Nazi pugs, fuck off!
Nazi pugs
Nazi pugs
Nazi pugs, fuck off!

You'll be the first to go
You'll be the first to go
You'll be the first to go
Unless you think

copyright Jello Biafra

Heartfeltdawn · April 2018

VimFuego said:

antifash said:

In fact, this site is still riddled with moronic cunts. Ban me please. Thanks.

lol, what's up snowflake, someone say your trigger word? I'm sure you can retreat to your safespace and a nice person will bring you a warm drink and some gluten-free ethically sourced cookies.

Get the recipe right.

TTony · April 2018

antifash said:

In fact, this site is still riddled with moronic cunts.

Apologies for that.

We're doing our best to get rid of them.

One moronic cunt at a time.

antifash said:

Ban me please. Thanks.

In fact, there's one less right there.

octatonic · April 2018

Just woke up- what did I miss?

digitalscream · April 2018

octatonic said:

Just woke up- what did I miss?

Depending on how long you were asleep...antifash.

octatonic · April 2018

So now we are anti-antifash, or just 'fash'?

Sporky · April 2018

octatonic said:

Just woke up- what did I miss?

Chap teaches his dog to do a Nazi salute to the phrase "gas the Jews", posts it on YouTube. Is taken to court for hate speech and fined.

Opinions then differ as to whether repeatedly saying "gas the Jews" to teach a dog to do a Nazi salute on YouTube is OK if you say you're joking.

TTony · April 2018

digitalscream said:

octatonic said:

Just woke up- what did I miss?

Depending on how long you were asleep...antifash.

More relevantly for you (or many people, probably), "A Place in the Sun, Home & Away" on Channel 4.

octatonic · April 2018

Sporky said:

octatonic said:

Just woke up- what did I miss?

Chap teaches his dog to do a Nazi salute to the phrase "gas the Jews", posts it on YouTube. Is taken to court for hate speech and fined.

Opinions then differ as to whether repeatedly saying "gas the Jews" to teach a dog to do a Nazi salute on YouTube is OK if you say you're joking.

Ah ok, my position on this is ... oh look a squirrel.

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Nazi Pug owner fined £800

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