A friend and I have been learning a song, I consider the song to be in the key of C as the chords used are C, F & G. The song centres on C, which is why I think it is in the key of C, but there is a B flat chord in the song, a chord that crops up every few lines in the song.
Can someone please explain why this is so, why a chord that is not part of the song key can be so effective. I sometimes hear and play major chords in songs, when the song key suggests 'should' be minor. But this song goes beyond that as it includes a chord the 'shouldn't' be there. I know that music is music and that rules are there to be broken and all that, but this is puzzling me as I like to have some idea why these 'out of key' chords work so well. Thanks in anticipation.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. [Albert Einstein]
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is it crazy how saying sentences backwards creates backwards sentences saying how crazy it is?
Knowing the chords and notes within a key is really useful but you also have to realize music theory is theory, not fact when it comes to what sounds cool.
But still learn theory, I would be a much better player if I knew 20 years ago what I know now
Or is it a G minor chord?
Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
As @bloodandtears says this Bb can be seen as a borrowed chord - so a chord from a closely related key. Let’s find where we might have a Bb and C type chord in the same key. Obvious places to start would be the parallel minor,
Cm Ddim Eb Fm Gm Ab Bb
Another place to look would be the key of F,
F Gm Am Bb C Dm Edim
So Bb is the vii in Cm and the IV in F, (where C is the V).
G C
B E
D G
There is a leading note in the G chord (B) that wants to move UP a semitone to the Root of C.
D E
F G
If we compare that with the Bb chord, there is another semitone movement that wants satisfying - F DOWN a semitone to E. If you were to play a C chord and play the note B, you’ll hear that want to move up. If you played an F note, your ear would want that to move down as it wouldn’t feel settled.
Now without going into too much depth, the 3rd and 5th notes of our Bb chord (D and F) are also the 5th and 7th of G7 which gives us a V - I movement. So if your song, more often than not, resolved from Bb to C, it’ll be a substitution for the G chord.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backdoor_progression
As I hear it, he plays and sings the song in the key of E. But at one stage he plays or I think he plays the chord of D. My friend plays it like Dan McCabe who uses a Capo on fret #2 and plays D key shapes. Hence he plays a C major chord.
Thanks for your input guys, I was wondering about the usage of a chord from outside the key chords.
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Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
If you fancy a proper challenge, try playing Amy Winehouse's Wake Up Alone (I used to play it on guitar for my ex-missus to sing).
It has the following chords in it.
A / G#7 / C#m / C / E maj 7 / F#m / F / D / G / G#dim7 / E7 / Bm / D# (or Eb) maj 7
Thanks again to you and to the other contributors to this question.
Nil Satis Nisi Optimum
However...
I checked out a Jimmy MacCarthey version and that was in the key of G and there are a couple of 'unexpected chords' as you put it, in the second section of the tune - F and Dm.
Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
This reminds me of Pearl Jam's Black
is it crazy how saying sentences backwards creates backwards sentences saying how crazy it is?
Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
Nil Satis Nisi Optimum
Songs can only go so far with the three usual suspects so somebody decided to add a fourth major chord. They tried all the others at random and found that the bVII sounded best.
Then somebody wrote a thesis on why but never really got to the bottom of it.