Jazz Stuff (the thread formerly known as "Just ordered some jazz guitar books...")

Megii · February 2015

knuckleberryfinn said:

In my admittedly limited experience, the value of the chord-shape/arpeggio approach over the scale one is that it's just about the right amount of structure. I've always found scales to be very limiting, both in terms of what my hand gets used to, and how my brain apprehends the fretboard when actually playing/improvising.

Yes, and really whatever works for you. When the chords are flying by, I have to agree it's easier to be visualising arpeggio shapes. But of course you don't have to choose - it doesn't have to be an "either or" thing. It is possible to learn scale "boxes" and also the various arpeggio shapes that are contained within them - learn it all I say - think of it as all part of the same thing even.

Re scales, of course don't just run up and down the notes - that usually does sound dull and mechanical - one has to find and develop good sounding lines using the scale notes - which are licks really. Such lines may well emphasize the harmonically strong arpeggio notes. Also, of course, it's possible to use chromatic notes not contained in the scale (I'm not talking about "outside" playing here) - chromatic approach notes for example, or using the "enclosure" technique - loads of possibilities really. Actually, as a tip, I find that using such chromatic notes really does help to make things sound better and more "jazzy" - I kind of do it automatically, much of the time, I'd probably find it hard not to.

Nice to have a bit of jazz chat going on the forum guys!

Megii · February 2015

I know it's been posted on forums before, but I do like this clip of Jimmy Raney talking about impro stuff:

He probably contradicts half of what I've said

- just throwing it out there really, in the interest of generating a bit more jazz chat.

GuyBoden · February 2015

Jazz can be many things to many people, it's very accommodating.

Megii · February 2015

Cheers for that one @GuyBoden - like your sentiment re the accommodating nature of jazz.

GuyBoden · February 2015

Megii said:

Cheers for that one @GuyBoden - like your sentiment re the accommodating nature of jazz.

What's your feelings about this?

Megii · February 2015

GuyBoden said:

Megii said:

Cheers for that one @GuyBoden - like your sentiment re the accommodating nature of jazz.

What's your feelings about this?

I can enjoy that, it's good stuff, I like it in fact. I suppose I'd be lying if I said that it would often be my first choice of listening material, but I am glad all the same that music like that is out there. My own jazz playing would not generally stray into such areas - I'm kind of still getting the bebop thing down to my satisfaction, and for some reason I do feel drawn to those bebop and 50s-ish jazz kind of styles. But I'd hope my listening covers a much wider range than bebop-ish jazz - I listen to loads of different music. So yes, I might listen to something like that once in a while, and while I wouldn't really work at studying such music in depth, I do feel that everything I listen to has some kind of effect on how I play.

Jalapeno · February 2015

GuyBoden said:

Megii said:

Cheers for that one @GuyBoden - like your sentiment re the accommodating nature of jazz.

What's your feelings about this?

Love the tightness of all the stop/start stuff - but overblown saxes ? No thanks ! It does get better - as in melodic & rhythmic later on.

Bet it never sounds the same twice though

I like Swing, Bebop & Post Bop cool/modal stuff myself. Can I hum it ? Do I tap my foot / Could anyone dance to it ??

Stuff like Take 5 is un-danceable, but it does have an identifiable melody and definitely a rhythm

Megii · February 2015

Jalapeno said:
Can I hum it ? Do I tap my foot / Could anyone dance to it ??

Stuff like Take 5 is un-danceable, but it does have an identifiable melody and definitely a rhythm

I do like music that has that nice jazz swing feel, and you can tap your foot to. And I also like things to be melodic much of the time. I like those nice harmonies you get in a lot of jazz too. So in certain contexts, these things can matter. But does music have to have these things to be good, or enjoyable? I don't think so. Is "melodic and rhythmic" always "better"? - I'd argue not. For example, I'm into a lot of so-called ambient music, which is often more about just juxtaposing different natural sounds and creating an atmosphere - I still find it says or means something to me.

Jalapeno · February 2015

Quite like a bit of Eno or Aphex Twin myself.

Overblown saxes just set my teeth on edge - just don't like the aesthetic - but not denying its validity.

I feel similar about Bitches Brew - the smacked up first LP "noise" is unlistenable (to me) the 2nd LP is OK.

Jalapeno · February 2015

hobbio · February 2015

Megii said:

or using the "enclosure" technique

I'm a wannabe jazzer, and whilst I'm aware of this technique I really struggle to make it sound musical.

Megii · February 2015

hobbio said:

Megii said:

or using the "enclosure" technique

I'm a wannabe jazzer, and whilst I'm aware of this technique I really struggle to make it sound musical.

I was already doing it long before I heard the term being used - all this kind of thing is "academicizing" what jazz musicians actually do, to some extent. I helped my own playing a lot by just noodling around with scale shapes, or arpeggios or whatever, and adding notes a half step above/below the scale notes, and just trying to come up with good jazzy-sounding lines that I liked. But I'd say maybe learn a few nice sounding lines that use enclosure, and listen to some of the greats playing -- you're bound to hear good examples.

Don't know if this video helps at all?

GuyBoden · February 2015

hobbio said:I'm a wannabe jazzer, and whilst I'm aware of this technique I really struggle to make it sound musical.

Enclosures: Listen and transcribe Charlie Parker, the answers are all in the recordings.

Megii · February 2015

Wondering if I should modify the thread title - it seems to have gone beyond my initial posting about a few jazz guitar tuition books I'd bought... :-?

hobbio · February 2015

I think it should be the Jazz thread now....

@Megii I'll check out that video at home later, thanks man. I'll also sit down with a backing track or two and a lick book, see if I can get anything to click.

@GuyBoden When I listen to Charlie Parker I can barely even hear what he's playing, let alone transcribe it. I need to train my ear somewhat, methinks.

GuyBoden · February 2015

hobbio said:

@GuyBoden When I listen to Charlie Parker I can barely even hear what he's playing, let alone transcribe it. I need to train my ear somewhat, methinks.

Slow it down, so you can hear it, use transcribe software or something similar.

http://www.seventhstring.com/

hobbio · February 2015

I've got RiffMaster Pro on my iPad/phone that'll let me slow it down whilst maintaining pitch so I'll try some out with that.

Megii · February 2015

hobbio said:

I think it should be the Jazz thread now....

@Megii I'll check out that video at home later, thanks man. I'll also sit down with a backing track or two and a lick book, see if I can get anything to click.

@GuyBoden When I listen to Charlie Parker I can barely even hear what he's playing, let alone transcribe it. I need to train my ear somewhat, methinks.

"The Jazz Thread" seems a bit presumptuous - I mean, it's not as if this has to be the only thread about jazz on the forum... I think I'll call it "Jazz Stuff"

hobbio · February 2015

Hows about "The One And Only Thread About Jazz You Will Ever Want Or Need To Read!!!!"?

Or I suppose you could go with yours

Megii · February 2015

hobbio said:

Hows about "The One And Only Thread About Jazz You Will Ever Want Or Need To Read!!!!"?

Or I suppose you could go with yours

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Jazz Stuff (the thread formerly known as "Just ordered some jazz guitar books...")

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