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electric proddy probe machine
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Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
Modes ? We don' need no steenking Modes ?
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Personally, I'd rather know/hear what specific notes in a scale will fit over a certain chord (depending in the musical situation), IMHO telling someone a certain scale fits a certain chord is not strictly true.
Don't get me wrong, I run lots of scales/modes when warming up and maintaining my fretboard knowledge.
Just my perspective, I'm not trying to upset anyone.
electric proddy probe machine
My trading feedback thread
electric proddy probe machine
My trading feedback thread
Spot on, it would be a very odd sort of art if it just comprised running up and down the scales of various chords lol. To me this theory stuff is just incredibly helpful in understanding music, that's it. It doesn't drive the music, it describes the music. When I actually play, I play tunes, the tunes in my head. I play what I want to play. But, having said that, what it does do is stretch my mind in a different way from the stretch I get from listening to lots of different music, or playing lots of songs, or writing / improvising. It's a complementary learning approach, and together with all the other facets of the art, when practised together, it gives a more holistic experience. I'm focusing on jazz theory at the moment because it was a woefully held back element in my own journey and I'm loving it, it's making so much slot into place.
(If you were referring to me, I'm not upset )
Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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https://sites.google.com/site/chilternhotclub/
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Interestingly, chord scale theory in Jazz (This scale goes with that chord method) only came about in the late 1950's by American theorists George Russell, David Baker and later advocated by Berklee Music school, so all songs composed before the late 1950's and that includes most of the Jazz Standards, have improvised solos using the song's melody, harmony and rhythm, not chord scale theory. If you transcribe a lot solos from the older Jazz standards this will soon become apparent.
So, if you're trying to improvise authentic sounding solos over the older Swing and Bebop Jazz standards by using Chord Scale relationships only, you're going to have a hard struggle, believe me I tried.
electric proddy probe machine
My trading feedback thread
Paulo said: Learn the melodies otherwise what are you improvising? Guitarists in general don't play melodies a lot yet they want to to improvise melodies using the magic of matching the scale to the chord. Usually they will end up sounding like this is what they are doing. It becomes an exercise. Learn to play well on the inside notes, this is still Jazz, then branch out when you are more confident. Listen to the greats, otherwise what is your inspiration? The les wise book is great for copping some great links from, but then you need to work those ones you like into your playing until you don't think about them anymore and they just emerge. I went back to the Les Wise book a while back and realised that a lot of those 'exotic' sounds were already part of my playing, even ones I don't remember working particularly hard on. I've had people come to me for lessons wanting to learn Jazz yet they can't name anyone who plays it! They just want to tick that box by learning a few scales and matching them to the chords, which frankly is a poor approach. Interestingly, chord scale theory in Jazz (This scale goes with that chord method) only came about in the late 1950's by American theorists George Russell, David Baker and later advocated by Berklee Music school, so all songs composed before the late 1950's and that includes most of the Jazz Standards, were improvised by just using the song's melody, harmony and rhythm, not chord scale theory. If you transcribe a lot of older Jazz standards solos this will soon become apparent.
So, if you're trying to play the older Swing and Bebop Jazz standards by using Chord Scale relationships only, you're going to have a hard struggle.
Although - I would still maintain it has it's value, even to people (such as myself) who are playing the older jazz standards. I'd say CST is more of an approach or a "way in" if you like, than a universal truth about jazz. I can remember going on some jazz education day thing (this is a long time ago, mid 80s probably) and we were given a simple chord sequence which stayed in one key (C major or something) and told we could play any of the C major scale notes over the chords. It was just a way of getting people over that initial barrier into improvising I suppose. Anyway - various people, including me, tried it - the results not surprisingly weren't all that good, but at least we were now able to play something... The guy in charge (a top British jazz musician) demonstrated some soloing, which of course sounded like proper jazz, whereas the learners' stuff didn't. As one of the learners, I later started to try and make my playing sound like jazz - I guess I would have started incorporating chromatic notes in various ways, learning to emphasize chord tones, learning to resolve certain notes to other notes as the chords changed, learning to use rhythm effectively, started developing my own bank of melodic phrases, improving the ear and listening to lots of jazz, and etc. etc.
Chord Scale theory is great for contemporary Jazz concepts, from modal onwards.
I did some quick reading on the concept and the lessons focus on enclosing root notes. Would it be safe to say that the enclosed note should usually be a chord tone. And that it wouldn't really work to enclose extension notes?
I know it's best to try it myself but I'm currently on the train and I would love to know what you guys think.
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