Helix LT is now available for order. Cut down version - ish.

gibsongretschfan

guitarfishbay said:

gibsongretschfan said:

His IR's were made for use with his Fractal though. That was what I was trying to say earlier without having the time to go into much detail.

l freely admit that the fractal stuff sounds better pound for pound than the Helix stuff on YouTube demos. However I think the gap has closed massively in the last year.

I thought his IR was based on the position he picked with the amp.  Regardless the reason that video was posted is it was a blind test.  A person could easily have reasons to prefer any of those sounds, or equally they may not feel strongly enough to care there's a difference at all.

I don't agree the gap has closed massively, because I've not heard a Helix clip that's convinced me otherwise.

Even if the gap has - to what benchmark, where the Axe FX 2 was a year ago?  Looking at my downloads folder a year ago was Quantum 2.01, we're now at 7.02, with some major improvements along the way.  I don't know what boards you post on but I know multiple users on here only post on here, and there's not really much hype around any digital unit except the Helix these days.  If Fractal or Kemper have updates often people don't even post about it.  But all the products are continuously updating.  I'm not directing this comment at yourself, but it does feel in some ways that some Helix users see the product in a vacuum and aren't aware it's not the only unit getting improved - the same is true of many Kemper and Fractal users (especially on the Fractal board).

I recognise this is opinion and even though I feel I am objective I don't expect anyone to believe I am - mostly because a lot of people on forums are biased towards stuff they own, which is natural I guess.  I'm not especially tribal about my gear ownership.  I've got a hardware 1176 compressor clone in my studio rack and unless it's a lead vocal I just use plugin 1176's because the difference isn't big enough for the extra hassle - that's how I might feel about the Helix vs the Axe FX 2 in some situations, if I owned both...  I think the Fractal sounds better if we're picking on sound but for tweaking stuff on the fly at a gig the Helix design is more suited to that, and it still sounds good.

Helix sounded like cack when it was realised in my opinion. It sounds really good now. In my experience with both units I don't think there's a hell of a lot in the amp modelling now. I genuinely find it hard to pick one Plexi over another now.

My only point was that the guy who made the comparison videos is a raging fanboy who made a really well produced but awfully unfair video.

I will also agree there are fewer good Helix videos on YouTube than Fractal but that's for different ponderings 

Jonathanthomas83

Ultimately, it's a bit of a hard argument to have because the Fractal stuff is so seemingly unobtainable for many. The daunting price doesn't help the transition from analogue to digital (it only became less of a blow for me when I realised it was the best thing I ever did).

Then throw in the fact you can't pop into a shop to try it.

So, like you, I've found it fun to join in Helix conversations, because there's not many of us Axe FX users on here, and those who are, are unusually quiet about it.

I would 100% back up every single one of your claims though, it's my experience too. And that's come from someone who has spent considerable time with both the Fractal and the Helix.

I agree with @monquixote about Helix's better UI, I've never denied that. However, would need to find out what FW he was using that took all night to create a usable patch? I can dial them in within minutes now I know what I'm doing, coupled with the positive advancements in FW.

guitarfishbay

monquixote said:

The online comparisons between Helix and Fractal don't tell the whole story.

My experience with Fractal stuff is that if you are prepared to spend a lot of time with the units and you really know what you are doing you can do amazing stuff, but I found creating patches to be an unenjoyable slog and it was taking me a whole evening to create 1 patch I was really happy with. 

The Helix UI makes it a joy to work with and I could get something close to what I was looking for within a few minutes even though I was much more experienced with the Fractal.

The upshot is that if I was Clarky or Drew with the skills and inclination to spend a long time on patches then the Axe might sound a bit better, (and that is might) but given the time I have and level of ability I know the results I would get from the Helix would be much better.

I thought you had a Standard/Ultra and not an Axe FX 2 when you borrowed one.  Regardless it was some time ago and if you felt you needed to do advanced tweaking then you might feel differently now.  I can only speak for myself - I used to use the dynamic resonance, preamp compression and sag tools on most patches, now I don't.  It's cut my tweaking time down to literally seconds on an amp model - I just stick to the basic controls, if it doesn't sound right I swap the amp (or IR if recording).

I don't recognise taking an evening to make a patch, but I never have and I don't know what you're going for but that seems excessive - the Pod HD I had previously was much harder to dial in and the only unit that's genuinely taken a long time was the GT8 because I had to keep referring to the manual for that as I couldn't figure out certain features.  I don't recognise it needing advanced skills to create a patch, and especially not in the past year or so of firmware.  But that's me and anyone else's mileage will vary.

Could a person dial a tone in faster on the Helix - yes on the floor unit itself, I'd say equal time on the computer editors so it'll depend on scenario.  When the Helix Native plugin comes out the advantages of being able to run multiple instances plus lower price may outweigh a hardware unit at all for many who only record/play at home

guitarfishbay

gibsongretschfan said:

Helix sounded like cack when it was realised in my opinion. It sounds really good now. In my experience with both units I don't think there's a hell of a lot in the amp modelling now. I genuinely find it hard to pick one Plexi over another now.

My only point was that the guy who made the comparison videos is a raging fanboy who made a really well produced but awfully unfair video.

I will also agree there are fewer good Helix videos on YouTube than Fractal but that's for different ponderings 

Fair enough.  I actually thought you were talking about Mitch at first, not Ola as I posted 2 videos in that post.

I think the best Helix demos I've heard so far are on Jon Symons' channel, Sonic Drive Studio.  He does the official Ownhammer IR demos on multiple platforms.

monquixote

I had an Ultra for a couple of months, but I've also used a 2 on a few occasions. 

I am a bad combination of impatient, but picky and also I don't like to edit things using a laptop which makes the difference between the two more stark. 
All I wanted was a basic patch without fancy effects where the tone sounded natural and balanced and the reverb didn't sound artificial etc. I certainly wasn't getting close to doing anything crazy complicated like Clarky does. I mostly found the basic settings insufficient and the more complex ones unintuitive and highly interrelated such that when you tweaked things you would have to go back and tweak a load more stuff to compensate. 

On the flipside when I had a Boss GT100 it didn't sound anywhere near as good, but you could do really complex routing and change loads of parameters with the expression pedal etc with ease.

Jonathanthomas83

@monquixote yeah, that's not my experience at all, so I suspect things have advanced a lot. I still need to use Axe Edit though.

guitarfishbay

monquixote said:

All I wanted was a basic patch without fancy effects where the tone sounded natural and balanced and the reverb didn't sound artificial etc. I certainly wasn't getting close to doing anything crazy complicated like Clarky does. I mostly found the basic settings insufficient and the more complex ones unintuitive and highly interrelated such that when you tweaked things you would have to go back and tweak a load more stuff to compensate. 

Yeah I don't recognise this at all.  I literally use the basic controls and I'm also quite picky (though it's a bit difficult to define/compare pickiness as we all like different things).  When I got my unit I did need to do some advanced tweaks but not anymore.  I also could not be arsed to do the stuff Clarky does with any unit!  It's super cool but I don't write anything that would need it.  Plus I don't own enough expression pedals

Jonathanthomas83

Who's this Clarky bloke and how can I find his videos?

professorben

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Who's this Clarky bloke and how can I find his videos?

I think it's @Clarky  erstwhile guitarist fro David Cross and general guitar lord. 

digitalscream

professorben said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Who's this Clarky bloke and how can I find his videos?

I think it's @Clarky  erstwhile guitarist fro David Cross and general guitar lord. 

Otherwise known as "He Of The Thousand Expression Pedals".

stratman3142

I'm seriously thinking of getting one of these now to replace my old GT6, which I use in manual mode with drive pedals in the Fx loop.

I'm guessing I can use the Helix LT in manual mode to have 8 Fx available to switch in for a given preset setting. Then toggle to preset mode, change the preset and switch back to manual mode to (in effect) give me another pedal board of 8 Fx.

Plus I could add an external drive (or two) if I felt I needed to. Although I assume the internal OD/distortions will be much more usable.

John_A

stratman3142 said:

I'm seriously thinking of getting one of these now to replace my old GT6, which I use in manual mode with drive pedals in the Fx loop.

I'm guessing I can use the Helix LT in manual mode to have 8 Fx available to switch in for a given preset setting. Then toggle to preset mode, change the preset and switch back to manual mode to (in effect) give me another pedal board of 8 Fx.

Plus I could add an external drive (or two) if I felt I needed to. Although I assume the internal OD/distortions will be much more usable.

Yes, but you can actually have 10 pedals assigned per preset and each pedal can be assigned to multiple effects if you like, you can use the helix pedals to switch the loops In and out too, 

edit. I'm talking about a Helix, the LT only has 8 footswitches, ignore me

Drew_TNBD

I honestly think it's all a much of a muchness. The Helix, Kemper, and Axe FX all sound very similar to me, depending on the models you compare.

None of them sound as good a real valve head - I'm still a tad bit snobbish about that!!

professorben

Drew_TNBD said:

I honestly think it's all a much of a muchness. The Helix, Kemper, and Axe FX all sound very similar to me, depending on the models you compare.

None of them sound as good a real valve head - I'm still a tad bit snobbish about that!!

I agree, but then you and I prefer hi-gain sounds which are notoriously difficult to replicate, in contrast to say, mid gain edge of breakup tones, which are pretty straight forward to simulate on digital gear. 

Drew_TNBD

professorben said:

Drew_TNBD said:

I honestly think it's all a much of a muchness. The Helix, Kemper, and Axe FX all sound very similar to me, depending on the models you compare.

None of them sound as good a real valve head - I'm still a tad bit snobbish about that!!

I agree, but then you and I prefer hi-gain sounds which are notoriously difficult to replicate, in contrast to say, mid gain edge of breakup tones, which are pretty straight forward to simulate on digital gear. 

Just had band practice right, and currently at the practice room I have my Orange Rockerverb 100 MKIII. Now THAT is an amp - holy shit the toannnzzzz!!

But it doesn't fit everything. I also keep feeling like I need some 5150 variant that I can switch to for certain songs, or certain parts...

But balls am I going to be using two amps! So who knows... I may end up using some of the Helix models just to cover those specific areas. That's where the modelling stuff comes into it's own really - lots of variety and pretty usable tones across the board.

But a physical thing that just kicks you in the bollocks is the gold standard imho.

Voxman

professorben said: mom

Drew_TNBD said:

I honestly think it's all a much of a muchness. The Helix, Kemper, and Axe FX all sound very similar to me, depending on the models you compare.

None of them sound as good a real valve head - I'm still a tad bit snobbish about that!!

I agree, but then you and I prefer hi-gain sounds which are notoriously difficult to replicate, in contrast to say, mid gain edge of breakup tones, which are pretty straight forward to simulate on digital gear. 

I disagree...its the edge of breakup and organic crunch tones that are the hardest to model and react to volume roll off. With high gain after you exceed a certain level of saturation high gain tones begin to sound the same, especially at volume, when  its more about the speakers/cab you're playing through which dictates that bottom end chug/grunt characteristic. 

John_A

Well I'll disagree again . I think they are all hard to replicate, but if you use a quality amp for high gain you get very familiar with the subtleties, and likewise. If you play a quality clean, or mid gain amp.

havent usd a Kemper, or latest gen axe fx, but the Helix does an amazing Job of all types of sounds, certainly better IMO than older Axefx gear.

i mainly play standard rock stuff up to JCM800 gain levels, but dip my toe in a lot of styles, and I get a much more convincing cooking JCM800 at pub levels than I ever did out of a real JCM800, It also sounds much better in the mix as the backline isn't overpowering and the fact I can switch to a Fender Twin, or a Dual Rec for a few songs is a big bonus too.

IMO all this valve amps are better stuff, comes from people who haven't given the latest modelling gear enough of a chance.  I certainly wouldn't have said this a year ago.  I've used the original Axefx, a HD500 and various other things that would never have replaced my proposer Amps, but things have now reached the point where modelling doesn't just sound as good, it sounds better

Drew_TNBD

Voxman said:

professorben said: mom

Drew_TNBD said:

I honestly think it's all a much of a muchness. The Helix, Kemper, and Axe FX all sound very similar to me, depending on the models you compare.

None of them sound as good a real valve head - I'm still a tad bit snobbish about that!!

I agree, but then you and I prefer hi-gain sounds which are notoriously difficult to replicate, in contrast to say, mid gain edge of breakup tones, which are pretty straight forward to simulate on digital gear. 

I disagree...its the edge of breakup and organic crunch tones that are the hardest to model and react to volume roll off. With high gain after you exceed a certain level of saturation high gain tones begin to sound the same, especially at volume, when  its more about the speakers/cab you're playing through which dictates that bottom end chug/grunt characteristic. 

The nature of the preamp makes a huge difference to the bottom end and chug characteristics. The way that low-end is dealt with earlier in the preamp's distortion circuit dictates to a large extent how much thump and how much tightness an amp will have. And that's even before you consider the impact of speakers and boxes for them to sit in!

mellowsun

All the Helix mid-to-high gain demos I've heard have this delay effect going on in the tails which makes it sound bigger and presumably hides the digital fizziness.

TimmyO

fretmeister said:

dindude said:

TimmyO said:

dindude said:

timmysoft said:

digitalscream said:

@dindude - why not do a limited run for forum folk who want one, pre-order only? You might be able to squeeze enough out of it to make it worth it.

I think a lot of forum guys would happily pay a bit more for the exclusivity and personal touch.

I've no doubt that they are "worth" the amount for those who want quality - it really is a beautifully built case (they are made in Germany), but quick sums means it would be somewhere north of £150, and that really is with me taking very little out.

It's not *terribly* far off the price of this so it might fly ?

https://www.thomann.de/gb/thon_effect_case_for_line_6_helix.htm

I'll give it some thought and start a new thread if needed, rather than keep derailing this one. Not wholey convinced right now though, when I'm selling a board with a case, I can do the case for pretty much cost, but on its own it doesn't stack up very well.

Just seen Dan at the Gigrig deliver one of his sets up in one of these

https://www.schmidtarray.com/

There's isn't an off the peg Helix board, but they do custom stuff, and they do look amazing. Money is about the same too.

Looking qt those I thought it was reasonably priced - then I realised I was looking at the price just for the lid LOL