Helix LT is now available for order. Cut down version - ish.

Drew_TNBD

guitarfishbay said:

The HBE model is cool. I think Periphery 3 is just guitar HBE model and impulse, only basic EQ if I'm remembering the URM interview correctly. I think they have one Axe FX left permanently on that FW in Mishas studio because they like how that patch sounds so much.

I'm happy to do some re-amps if you send me a  DI... best thing would to get a tone you like with your real 5150 and load box, tell me the IR used and I'll send back a few in that ballpark. I know you tend to go for more high end than me so a benchmark file would help it be more useful.

I've still got the Lateralus DI from your Helix vs 5150 comparison from a couple of months back but you forgot which IR you used IIRC.

Yeah I've not forgotten, don't worry!

I'll send you some stuff this weekend I reckon.

Drew_TNBD

Another thing is, I actually really like the process of recording real amps. Matching mics to cabs, matching amps to cabs, sweeping around the front of each cone with the mic whilst routing pink noise into the FX loop, etc.. etc...

It's just more fun than dialing up an amp and impulse response within a matter of minutes and having a suitable tone.

Basically I'm a masochist! lol.

Teetonetal

Drew_TNBD said:

Another thing is, I actually really like the process of recording real amps. Matching mics to cabs, matching amps to cabs, sweeping around the front of each cone with the mic whilst routing pink noise into the FX loop, etc.. etc...

It's just more fun than dialing up an amp and impulse response within a matter of minutes and having a suitable tone.

Basically I'm a masochist! lol.

Also, I guess you have access to the gear, time  and space to do that and make it fun? Modelling = making music vs making none in my case.

John_A

guitarfishbay said:

John_A said:

Hi Clarky. Don't think I was clear in what I said.  I think modellers are designed to be used FRFR, I.e. Straight in to the desk' FRFR cab, PA or whatever IF you are trying to reproduce the sound of a specific model as closely as possible to what that model is supposed to be. 

It stands to reason that if you amplify a full (pre and power amp) sim through a flat power amp with enough clean headroom, and the same guitar cabinet as you were using with the 'real' amp it should be able to get fairly close - if not matching the tone exactly it should at least get in the ballpark of feel and response.  Unless there's something fundamental I don't understand about modelers.

My point I really nothing more than a 'different' amp/cab setup will affect the sound, i.e. a champ through a closed back V30 loaded 4x12 won't sound like a champ, not that it's better or worse, but if you are looking to recreate a very specific combination of amp/cab/speakers then FRFR allows you to do this without tour real amp/cab/speakers influencing the overall sound.

Yes, a Plexi model through a Marshall 1960 is going to be very close, and a Dual Rec through the same cab is still going to sound good, but not quite like it would through a Mesa cab

None of it matters if you like the sound you are hearing, but some people are intent on comparing a modeller with the 'real thing' and if you are using a cab/speakers that colours the sound it will be different, not better or worse necessarily, but different.

Typing all of this I hope I'm not being interpreted as saying 'you must use FRFR' or anybody is wrong for doing what they doing. That's not the intention.  I think the thread has spiralled to the point we are all arguing about not very much

John_A

stratman3142 said:

Has anyone seen what the price of Helix Native (plugin) is for Helix LT owners?

Helix Native appears to be $399 but reduced to $99 for Helix owners. Significant price differences might be a factor in deciding on a 'full' Helix or the LT version.

It's on this thread somewhere, can't remember exactly, but it is a lump more than if you have a full Helix.

Drew_TNBD

Teetonetal said:

Drew_TNBD said:

Another thing is, I actually really like the process of recording real amps. Matching mics to cabs, matching amps to cabs, sweeping around the front of each cone with the mic whilst routing pink noise into the FX loop, etc.. etc...

It's just more fun than dialing up an amp and impulse response within a matter of minutes and having a suitable tone.

Basically I'm a masochist! lol.

Also, I guess you have access to the gear, time  and space to do that and make it fun? Modelling = making music vs making none in my case.

Right now that is the case yes. Let's see what changes once the daughter needs a bedroom!!

Teetonetal

Drew_TNBD said:

Teetonetal said:

Drew_TNBD said:

Another thing is, I actually really like the process of recording real amps. Matching mics to cabs, matching amps to cabs, sweeping around the front of each cone with the mic whilst routing pink noise into the FX loop, etc.. etc...

It's just more fun than dialing up an amp and impulse response within a matter of minutes and having a suitable tone.

Basically I'm a masochist! lol.

Also, I guess you have access to the gear, time  and space to do that and make it fun? Modelling = making music vs making none in my case.

Right now that is the case yes. Let's see what changes once the daughter needs a bedroom!!

well.. my solution is a good one.bigger flat - with an extra room
Failing that, split the rooms by gender...

gibsongretschfan

So is anyone actually planning on buying a Helix LT?

Vaiai

gibsongretschfan said:

So is anyone actually planning on buying a Helix LT?

Pre ordered and paying it up so I can take my time selling the FX8 and then clear it off - the 2nd hand price on the LT will be insanely good value tho! And there will be some.

guitarfishbay

John_A said:

My point I really nothing more than a 'different' amp/cab setup will affect the sound, i.e. a champ through a closed back V30 loaded 4x12 won't sound like a champ, not that it's better or worse, but if you are looking to recreate a very specific combination of amp/cab/speakers then FRFR allows you to do this without tour real amp/cab/speakers influencing the overall sound.

None of it matters if you like the sound you are hearing, but some people are intent on comparing a modeller with the 'real thing' and if you are using a cab/speakers that colours the sound it will be different, not better or worse necessarily, but different.

I do understand your point, I was just talking about my experience of comparing when there are the minimal variables.  I was using the same cabinet for both real amp and Axe FX 2 (amplified with GT1000FX).

Mostly I was giving my own answer to Dindude's question about amp vs modeler.

Drew_TNBD

John_A said:

guitarfishbay said:

John_A said:

Hi Clarky. Don't think I was clear in what I said.  I think modellers are designed to be used FRFR, I.e. Straight in to the desk' FRFR cab, PA or whatever IF you are trying to reproduce the sound of a specific model as closely as possible to what that model is supposed to be. 

It stands to reason that if you amplify a full (pre and power amp) sim through a flat power amp with enough clean headroom, and the same guitar cabinet as you were using with the 'real' amp it should be able to get fairly close - if not matching the tone exactly it should at least get in the ballpark of feel and response.  Unless there's something fundamental I don't understand about modelers.

My point I really nothing more than a 'different' amp/cab setup will affect the sound, i.e. a champ through a closed back V30 loaded 4x12 won't sound like a champ, not that it's better or worse, but if you are looking to recreate a very specific combination of amp/cab/speakers then FRFR allows you to do this without tour real amp/cab/speakers influencing the overall sound.

Thing is, FRFR doesn't distribute sound in the same way as bandlimited guitar loudspeakers. So even with an IR, you're getting a different performative experience. I think this is what a lot of people don't like about FRFR - they don't like how when you move in front of the speaker, you don't get the same kind of tonal changes you get from a cab, you don't get the same amount of pushing of the air, and you don't get the same push/pull interaction with the poweramp. An impulse response is just another kind of filter - and it's behaviour is static. Whilst the frequency response is captured fairly well, it doesn't capture any of the dynamic response of a cab interacting with a poweramp. You can fake this somewhat with compression, but it's not the same.

Sporky

I wonder if it'll be long before we see "3D" IRs - so response vs time as you get now, but also response vs time vs volume...

gearaddict

gibsongretschfan said:

So is anyone actually planning on buying a Helix LT?

I'm not sure...I was going to but with the full fat one being a bit reduced it brings the gap down to £300 and when you're spending close to a grand anyway it feels a bit borderline. Plus I do want to see what happens with the Headrush.

TBH I'm questioning whether modelling is really the right way to go for me. I like a lot of the flexibility but the time you have to put into setting it all up is a big negative for me. I'm never happy with my sound anyway and dealing with that is easier when you have pedals and an amp.

Plus I don't record or play in a studio so that whole side of things is irrelevant to me. And I can't ever see me going straight to FoH...our PA setup changes from gig to gig and I really don't need to be plugging in and finding everything sounds shite just because the FoH setup is different.

Dunno.

Jonathanthomas83

gearaddict said:

I'm never happy with my sound anyway and dealing with that is easier when you have pedals and an amp.

I find it the opposite. When I had pedals and an amp, I always looked for a new pedal to fix the issues. I don't GAS for pedals or amps anymore, I use the tools at hand, in the Axe FX to get me where I want to be. It's great - but I agree, not for everyone. 

menamestom

  gibsongretschfan said:

So is anyone actually planning on buying a Helix LT?

I think I probably will, but not immediately and also I'll be keeping my amps.

But the thought of having the creative possibilities of the Helix with the minimum of fuss is appealing and the LT price puts it as a feasible solution for FX only - now I can sell a bunch of pedals and keep my amps to finance an LT.

What I like about the Helix is it looks easy to use.  I want something so that when I dream of a sound on a song I can easily access it and store it.  I like that the Helix has an ethos of flexibility with connections and moving things around.  I hate things which limit - the Boss Katana went because of that.  Loads of effects that sounded alright but you can't have a boost, modulation and delay at your feet, so actually more limiting than the pedals it was supposed to replace.

Also for home practise with phones it looks great too, the PODHD 300 I had was good enough for that also but it was too limited in which effects you could have at once, the Helix has addressed that. 

As for amp modelling, I've not joined the debate because I've not tried a Helix, so can't comment really.  I guess based on the clips I'm certainly not planning using it instead of an amp, but now it's priced as it is I don't need to.  If I'm proven wrong fair enough, I don't want to be stuck in the valves are always better camp, but based on clips alone that's where I still am.  But if I buy one it will be up to me how I use it, they are all tools and a means to an end 

gearaddict

I don't understand how guys like Clarky manage to 'bake in' a set of sounds and then never change them. I can play some stuff in the morning and think it sounds great...then come back to the exact same setup in the same room that afternoon and think it sounds gash.

I guess he spends a lot longer than I do setting things up in the first place.

guitarfishbay

Sporky said:

I wonder if it'll be long before we see "3D" IRs - so response vs time as you get now, but also response vs time vs volume...

Could you not already theoretically achieve this with algorithmic reverb?  (as in response vs time vs volume)

Algorithmic reverb could theoretically respond to signal level, though I am just going off my basic understanding.  It'd also require sounds to be built from the ground up, unless someone can make a Kemper for reverb algorithms.

If you could capture this as easily as you can capture an IR now it'd be a big deal for sound in general, not just guitar.

Sporky

I think that's how modelling started off in a way.

But I think that IRs have moved modelling on a great deal - not just from a sound quality/accuracy point of view, but because they have that air of authenticity about them. They're captured from "real" stuff! I think that's probably reassuring to a lot of people.

Vaiai

Picking mine up tmrw

John_A

Vaiai said:

Picking mine up tmrw

Congratulations - I'd start a new thread if I were you this one's been derailed somewhat