Electoral Idiots...

Sporky

Emp_Fab said:

I don't see why.  If I say I think 60% of the electorate vote without really understanding what they are voting for, why should personal insults be a suitable response?

If you'd said that then they wouldn't, but your post called people idiots and lazy. You set the parameters yourself.

Emp_Fab

Well, what words would you use to describe people who cast votes - that can easily change the outcome of what government we all get and the direction the country takes for the next five years - without really understanding why, because they haven't bothered to read anything about what the parties stand for or are voting because of any of the reasons I mentioned in my first post.  I think lazy and idiot is appropriate (even though 'idiot' is a tad strong I'll admit, but again it was a play on 'American Idiot') - either way doing something that affects the lives of everyone without understanding what you're doing is pretty idiotic.

Does it really matter what words I use to describe the people we're talking about anyway ?  Whether I tippie-toe around it and use genteel language or do a Drew and go full 'fly infested c*nts' on it, it doesn't change a thing.  The question still stands.

..or are you saying you're only willing to discuss things if the disparaging monikers used meet your parameters ?

CabbageCat

Emp_Fab said:

Doing something that affects the lives of everyone without understanding what you're doing is pretty idiotic.

You seem to be implying that you understand the full ramifications of voting the way you vote. Which comes across as pretty arrogant to me.

Drew_TNBD

Emp_Fab said:

Well, what words would you use to describe people who cast votes - that can easily change the outcome of what government we all get and the direction the country takes for the next five years - without really understanding why, because they haven't bothered to read anything about what the parties stand for or are voting because of any of the reasons I mentioned in my first post.  I think lazy and idiot is appropriate (even though 'idiot' is a tad strong I'll admit, but again it was a play on 'American Idiot') - either way doing something that affects the lives of everyone without understanding what you're doing is pretty idiotic.

Does it really matter what words I use to describe the people we're talking about anyway ?  Whether I tippie-toe around it and use genteel language or do a Drew and go full 'fly infested c*nts' on it, it doesn't change a thing.  The question still stands.

..or are you saying you're only willing to discuss things if the disparaging monikers used meet your parameters ?

Seriously dude... I think you're insane. I really do. You need sectioning. No-one can go 5+ years of online communication and not learn a single thing about themselves. No-one! But you seem to have managed it!

It's quite ... admirable in a way. Stick to yer guns lad. It's everyone else who has a problem - nothing you do is ever an issue, and you're never in the wrong!!

Emp_Fab

No.  I'm no more a political expert than anyone else who votes based on manifesto pledges and their own conscience.  I don't think anyone can understand the full ramifications.  However, I'm deciding after listening to what the parties have to say and comparing that with my political feelings.  I'm taking an active interest in the election and the parties.  I'm not going to vote because of hearsay, what my paper or peers say and my like or dislike of personalities.  The amount of horseshit I've heard people come out with about what the Tories will do, or what Labour will do if they get in etc you wouldn't believe.

British people are little different from Americans - and enough of them were stupid enough to vote in a dumbass gobshite.
Thinking that 'our' electorate are somehow better than the US electorate is pretty arrogant.

bingefeller

Love these threads of your, Emp!  You're knocking out nuggets of wisdom and insight on a regular basis these days.  

Drew_TNBD

Emp_Fab said:

No.  I'm no more a political expert than anyone else who votes based on manifesto pledges and their own conscience.  I don't think anyone can understand the full ramifications.  However, I'm deciding after listening to what the parties have to say and comparing that with my political feelings.  I'm taking an active interest in the election and the parties.  I'm not going to vote because of hearsay, what my paper or peers say and my like or dislike of personalities.  The amount of horseshit I've heard people come out with about what the Tories will do, or what Labour will do if they get in etc you wouldn't believe.

British people are little different from Americans - and enough of them were stupid enough to vote in a dumbass gobshite.
Thinking that 'our' electorate are somehow better than the US electorate is pretty arrogant.

Honestly it just seems like people voted for things you wouldn't have, and you can't get your head around it. So rather than try to understand, you just want to take potshots at an imagined section of society. It's quite sociopathic really. But still... admirable.

Emp_Fab

Drew_TNBD said:

Seriously dude... I think you're insane. I really do. You need sectioning. No-one can go 5+ years of online communication and not learn a single thing about themselves. No-one! But you seem to have managed it!

It's quite ... admirable in a way. Stick to yer guns lad. It's everyone else who has a problem - nothing you do is ever an issue, and you're never in the wrong!!

I think everyone is insane - in different ways. 

I frequently get things wrong, I often regret things I say or do, but I'm no different to anyone else.  Actually, I think I'm far more likely to admit I'm wrong than you (and a LOT of people here) are !

Drew_TNBD

Emp_Fab said:

Drew_TNBD said:

Seriously dude... I think you're insane. I really do. You need sectioning. No-one can go 5+ years of online communication and not learn a single thing about themselves. No-one! But you seem to have managed it!

It's quite ... admirable in a way. Stick to yer guns lad. It's everyone else who has a problem - nothing you do is ever an issue, and you're never in the wrong!!

I think everyone is insane - in different ways. 

I frequently get things wrong, I often regret things I say or do, but I'm no different to anyone else.  Actually, I think I'm far more likely to admit I'm wrong than you (and a LOT of people here) are !

Oh yeah, I never admit it when I'm wrong. Ever.

http://thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/1476700/#Comment_1476700

*cough*

octatonic

Drew_TNBD said:

Emp_Fab said:

No.  I'm no more a political expert than anyone else who votes based on manifesto pledges and their own conscience.  I don't think anyone can understand the full ramifications.  However, I'm deciding after listening to what the parties have to say and comparing that with my political feelings.  I'm taking an active interest in the election and the parties.  I'm not going to vote because of hearsay, what my paper or peers say and my like or dislike of personalities.  The amount of horseshit I've heard people come out with about what the Tories will do, or what Labour will do if they get in etc you wouldn't believe.

British people are little different from Americans - and enough of them were stupid enough to vote in a dumbass gobshite.
Thinking that 'our' electorate are somehow better than the US electorate is pretty arrogant.

Honestly it just seems like people voted for things you wouldn't have, and you can't get your head around it. So rather than try to understand, you just want to take potshots at an imagined section of society. It's quite sociopathic really. But still... admirable.

LOL.

CabbageCat

Emp_Fab said:

No.  I'm no more a political expert than anyone else who votes based on manifesto pledges and their own conscience.

And, knowing that you don't understand what the impact of your vote is, you are still prepared to tick that box, affecting the lives of millions. Some people might call that idiotic.

Emp_Fab said:

 I'm not going to vote because of hearsay, what my paper or peers say and my like or dislike of personalities.

You will, you know. All aspects of what you hear and read will affect you. You can't help it - none of us can. You might not vote Labour because Katy Perry tells you to but it's a factor (positive or negative).

Emp_Fab said:

British people are little different from Americans - and enough of them were stupid enough to vote in a dumbass gobshite.
Thinking that 'our' electorate are somehow better than the US electorate is pretty arrogant.

Indeed. Is that more or less arrogant than thinking that the only reason people would vote for Trump is because they are stupid would you say?

Drew_TNBD

I like Katy Perry. She's explicitly said she's not a feminist. In the 21st century. In front of an audience of probable feminists. She's a boss ass bitch.

Sporky

Emp_Fab said:

..or are you saying you're only willing to discuss things if the disparaging monikers used meet your parameters ?

Nope - I'm happy to mock people no matter how rude or polite they are.

I am simply pointing out that when you open a thread with personal insults you shouldn't be surprised when they continue.

Similarly, when you open a thread with what was essentially a declaration of your superiority, you've got to expect to be treated like a coconut at a fair.

Emp_Fab

That's a fair point.  Perhaps I just assumed that everyone here was with me in the 'superior club' of the 40% who actually think about who they're voting for, but of course that's nuts, when it's statistically likely that 60% of people in this thread are complete dingbats*

*assuming my hypothesis on P1 is correct.

CabbageCat said:

Emp_Fab said:

No.  I'm no more a political expert than anyone else who votes based on manifesto pledges and their own conscience.

And, knowing that you don't understand what the impact of your vote is, you are still prepared to tick that box, affecting the lives of millions. Some people might call that idiotic.

You are guilty of a logical fallacy here - I do understand the impact of my vote - just as much as the next person who takes an interest in politics.  You are attempting to twist the fact that I said that nobody can ever know the full ramifications of their vote into an admission that I have no idea at all.  You're normally better than this... come on.

Indeed. Is that more or less arrogant than thinking that the only reason people would vote for Trump is because they are stupid would you say? 

I'm going for 'more arrogant' because the only reason people voted for Trump was because they are weapons-grade fuckwits.

Drew_TNBD said:

I like Katy Perry. She's explicitly said she's not a feminist. In the 21st century. In front of an audience of probable feminists. She's a boss ass bitch.

feminism

ˈfɛmɪnɪz(ə)m/

noun

the advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes.

So, you like Katy Perry because she explicity said she did not agree with equality of the sexes then ?  Ergo, you don't agree with equality of the sexes.  But then.. everyone here already knew that.

Sporky

"Feminist", like "liberal", has been successfully redefined by the authoritarian right to mean the things they stand for but want to criticize nevertheless.

Emp_Fab

See, now this is beginning to approach what I've always wanted in a discussion (courtesy of yourself and CabbageCat).  We can discuss things without screaming insults at each other.  ..and as far as Drew's comment about never having learned anything about myself goes; what can anyone learn when the responses consist mostly of abuse ?

"<counter argument explained>" = gives me something to consider.
"Smell my cheese you bobber" = all I'm considering is whether your mental age is under 10 or under 5.

Sporky

To be fair there was both in here. Though I don't think "bobber" is world-class as insults go.

@fretmeister has mentioned civics classes a few times; I think they would be an excellent thing, much as in my engineering degree we had short courses on How Not To Die Poor (ie personal finance) and The History Of The Pointy Stick (managing innovation, disruptive technologies and so on). Both were unscored but obligatory - you failed if you didn't turn up. And both excellent.

Also basic cooking.

And then, in the spirit of setting the bar either just below my heels or just above my head, I'd like to be able to abstain in favour of a 1% tax break, which would be a lot more use to me than a worthless vote that I can only apply to one bag of shitheels that wants things I don't want, or another. I was discussing this with Lady BMcH, who has formerly felt very strongly that one should vote, but this time we both find ourselves unable to endorse any of the candidates or parties - every one has policies that are unacceptable.

In such a situation I will not accept tyrants and bullies insisting that I have an obligation to vote for someone with whom I have serious disagreements.

Finally, in the spirit of the thread, @Emp_Fab - your head is a funny shape and your shoes are ugly.

Drew_TNBD

Emp_Fab said:

I'm going for 'more arrogant' because the only reason people voted for Trump was because they are weapons-grade fuckwits.

Drew_TNBD said:
Honestly it just seems like people voted for things you wouldn't have, and you can't get your head around it. So rather than try to understand, you just want to take potshots at an imagined section of society. It's quite sociopathic really. But still... admirable.

Kevin... you're a total weapon.

Drew_TNBD

Sporky said:

"Feminist", like "liberal", has been successfully redefined by the authoritarian right to mean the things they stand for but want to criticize nevertheless.

I'm not sure this is true really. I think it's more a case of analysing what the aforementioned groups say versus what they actually DO.

Feminists in theory = we want gender equality
Feminists in practice = give us all the domestic violence resources, ban that Red Pill movie because it's uncomfortable viewing, and stop using words like cunt, bitch, and slut!

Liberals in theory = we believe in liberty and freedom for all
Liberals in practice = No you can't use those words! No you can't have that job, we need it for a protected class! Sexist! Misogynist! Racist! Xenophobe! Stop criticising our favourite non-Western religion!

Conservatives in theory = We don't want a huge state, we don't want to bail people out, we want to force people to work hard and to make a success of their lives
Conservatives in practice = We don't want a huge state, we don't want to bail people out, we want to force people to work hard and to make a success of their lives (except for our mates who will just be the beneficiaries of our embezzlement)

Emp_Fab

1. I'm sorry but I just can't accept that any sane person would vote for Trump.   He's an uneducated oaf.  There were enough alarm bells ringing clear and loud before the election that he was unhinged.   If you vote for such a candidate, your sanity has to be questioned.

2. My name is not Kevin.