Manchester Arena explosion.

joeyowen

@underdog ;
credit to you all for carrying on today.  Easy for me living 90 minutes away.  I can imagine it is hard for everyone in Manchester at the moment

underdog

joeyowen said:

@underdog ;
credit to you all for carrying on today.  Easy for me living 90 minutes away.  I can imagine it is hard for everyone in Manchester at the moment

I'm down in south Wales mate, nowhere near Manchester, this is just the knock on effect isn't it, high alert all over the UK. A lot more police about here this morning.

joeyowen

Blimey, that shows the scale of things

bluechargeboy

I have just been told that my business trip to the Netherlands in two weeks is now considered "high risk travel" (not because of coffee shops either). Go figure.

Drew_TNBD

Snap said:

Drew_TNBD said:

I don't have any answers. But you should understand, I am not saying this is a 'Muslim' problem. I am saying it is an 'Islam' problem,

The two are inseparable: a muslim is someone who follows Islam. Same thing.

No man. People and ideology are not the same thing.

GoldenEraGuitars

Drew_TNBD said:

Cirrus said:

Snap said:

I:m not sure tbh. I think a large part of addressing this is from within the muslim community. They have a better view of this than anyone else, and could be a step ahead in spotting radiaclisation, extremist mosques etc. Plenty of statments coming from various quarters, but a strong condemnation from world leaders in Islam would be a good thing to see.

They typically do, but it seems like their message doesn't get very far. Just a few days ago on my facebook feed something came up from a few years ago - I'd shared a statement from the Muslim Council of Britain strongly condemning the murder of Lee Rigby and calling for all UK Muslims to stand shoulder to shoulder with the rest of the population.

Why does the general Muslim population not do so then? Sure, we get small enclaves which get paraded around as "Look! See! They do care!" and the conversation ends there. The largest British representative council for Islam asks their followers to condemn and stand against these sorts of attacks. But a large majority of UK Muslims don't lean into the rest of the British community in the face of these attacks. They just bury their head in the sand.

And it isn't their fault. Again, we shouldn't take it out on individual Muslims. But they come from and are brought up in a culture where the one true word *IS* the one true word and any deviation and heavily punished. From homosexuality to adultery to disobeying your husband to dating outside of the Muslim community, etc.

By and large they exist in a small self-policing sub-state and many of them don't speak English. They've got no-one to turn to, aren't well educated, and are trapped in a system that abuses their loyality and piety. It's like a mini-North Korea that exists in our country.

You guys talk about moderates but we already know a huge proportion of British Muslims have insanely conservative principles and want to see our British laws changed to reflect their life philosophy. A life philosophy that is taught to them from an early age in mosques and family units across the country - and the world.

I don't have any answers. But you should understand, I am not saying this is a 'Muslim' problem. I am saying it is an 'Islam' problem, and even then taking the argument to it's logical conclusion, I'm not saying it's an 'Islam' problem so much as a 'collectivist' problem. Look at all the things I criticise - they tend to be collectivist ideologies. I was reflecting on that on my way into the office this morning. All of these ideologies seek to cleanse the human spirit of it's individuality and seek to force people to bow down - whether it's a God, a state, a set of principles or overarching philosophy.

This is not about condemning any individual or group of people (aside from the cunt who did this!) - it's about exploring the state of affairs that led to it. I think UK foreign policy is a very infinitesimal part of the picture, and it's often over-egged by people who don't want to face the ideological differences between cultures.

TBH.... this could be about religion in general. It is a control mechanism. The perpetrator of this attack (and all the others that have happened) will fly the flag of Islam but they do so to a minority of the Muslim community. Lets not start stereotyping. Christianity isnt exactly a peace loving religion, is it..

Whoever did this obviously has mental issues, he or she has been brainwashed. Thank frig they are in the minority but that doesnt help when this happens.

Such a sad day for the country, I hope everyone is re united soon. Its harrowing to listen to on the radio.

DarnWeight

Youngest victim so far has just been named across all the news outlets.  She was 8 years old.  Don't know about anybody else, but I'm having a hard time holding it together today.

joeyowen

awwww, someone was sharing a post this morning looking for her asking for info

fuck sake

underdog

Devastating

ourmaninthenorth

joeyowen said:

@underdog ;
credit to you all for carrying on today.  Easy for me living 90 minutes away.  I can imagine it is hard for everyone in Manchester at the moment

I think It's hard for every right minded, dignified, free thinking individual everywhere..not just Manchester people. 

I am revolted by these gobshites....but not revolted enough to lose my temper or my bottle. That's what I believe is their underlying rationale...well I fucking deny them. 

My absolute heartfelt best wishes and condolences to all the innocence destroyed by this shithousery. 

Flanging_Fred

What a horrible day. I had to talk to my 11 year old daughter this morning before she got wind of it. It wasnn't long ago that I took her to her first concert, which would have been a very similar pop gig..

Unfortunately this was coming, I was speaking to someone in the police recently and they have been going crazy with overtime in the last few weeks as they knew something was afoot. 

I think these attacks will accellerate now for a while because Mosul is almost entirely captured from IS now (they have about 10% of it left and it's going to be a bloodbath there over the next couple of weeks.  Raqqa is surrounded and awaiting the "go" for the kurds to attack now.  IS is splintering and we're going to get some of those splinters here.  Just today a city in the Philipines has been attacked by IS and they've got it under their control.at the moment.  This really is a global problem.

Heartfeltdawn

As ever, Twitter throws up people who defy reason or logic. 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-40010376

Ravenous

Heartfeltdawn said:

As ever, Twitter throws up people who defy reason or logic. 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-40010376

How strange. I have to keep telling myself there have always been nutters, it's not a recent phenomena...

TheBigDipper

Axe_meister said:

Snap said:

Fretwired said:

professorben said:

Education and integration are the only only way to combat ignorance and segregation. 

Stop bombing people in Iraq and Syria, have a ceasefire, and try and find a peaceful solution might be a way to stop attacks in the west and final a peaceful solution.

I:m not sure tbh. I think a large part of addressing this is from within the muslim community. They have a better view of this than anyone else, and could be a step ahead in spotting radiaclisation, extremist mosques etc. Plenty of statments coming from various quarters, but a strong condemnation from world leaders in Islam would be a good thing to see.

The trouble is which Muslim community? Those likely to listen are the moderates who probably enjoy our western civilization and can reconcile the two different cultures. How do you talk to somebody living in a bloody desert who is shat on by everybody, who then turns to the radical cleric who appears to be the only person on their side. 

Most people - including me - have no idea what it can be like to be a 2nd generation British man with a brown skin, cockney accent and Bangladeshi parents, brought up in the East End of London yet being constantly told by white men of a certain age that "You Pakis should go back where you came from". Hardly helps people integrate, does it? 

I used to teach motorcycling in the East End and trained a lot of brown-skinned kids with at least one foreign-born parent. Most of them shrugged it off, but it sticks with some and they start listening to the wrong people.

KKJale

Journalists are carrying themselves with integrity, as usual. This guy's brother is missing, and look what he's dealing with. 

https://twitter.com/danhett

Much like what this person went through...

https://twitter.com/DrEm_79/status/866948006498717697

Snap

Drew_TNBD said:

Snap said:

Drew_TNBD said:

I don't have any answers. But you should understand, I am not saying this is a 'Muslim' problem. I am saying it is an 'Islam' problem,

The two are inseparable: a muslim is someone who follows Islam. Same thing.

No man. People and ideology are not the same thing.

I know what you mean, but a muslim by definition is a follower of Islam. Its not a race or an ethnic group. The problem isn't Islam, it's people. Tossers who believe that their version of the story is absolute, and that they have the right to lord it over everybody else.

scrumhalf

I heard a phone-in cal lthis morning by someone named Keith Dick who was waiting outside with his wife for his children and grandchildren.

The matter-of-fact way he talked about the search for his (thankfully unharned) family and how his wife and he looked after a young girl who had been injured was chilling and warming at the same time.

CabbageCat

Snap said:

Drew_TNBD said:

Snap said:

Drew_TNBD said:

I don't have any answers. But you should understand, I am not saying this is a 'Muslim' problem. I am saying it is an 'Islam' problem,

The two are inseparable: a muslim is someone who follows Islam. Same thing.

No man. People and ideology are not the same thing.

I know what you mean, but a muslim by definition is a follower of Islam. Its not a race or an ethnic group. The problem isn't Islam, it's people. Tossers who believe that their version of the story is absolute, and that they have the right to lord it over everybody else.

It's not Islam or Muslims that are the problem, it's terrorists.

ourmaninthenorth

Another thing that gets right up my fucking nose....what the fuck is a suicide bomber? 

The definition of suicide is the intentional killing of oneself...so a suicide bomber would use a bomb to solely kill themselves. 

These fuckers are Murder Bombers. Their victims have been murdered. 

Language is important. Mark it. 

Murder Bombers. 

joeyowen

ourmaninthenorth said:

Another thing that gets right up my fucking nose....what the fuck is a suicide bomber? 

The definition of suicide is the intentional killing of oneself...so a suicide bomber would use a bomb to solely kill themselves. 

These fuckers are Murder Bombers. Their victims have been murdered. 

Language is important. Mark it. 

Murder Bombers. 

How about Coward Bombers?