N***** in a Woodpile.

Bucket

robgilmo said:

Drew_TNBD said:

robgilmo said:

Drew_TNBD said:

robgilmo said:
Sorry but ''suspended'' just isn't good enough, it wont stop them from thinking the way they do.

Well I think you should be gangraped by a pack of woodlice.

And why should I be gangraped by a pack of woodlice pray tell?

Because you're a fascist and an evil fucking cunt of a man. You want to stop people thinking the way they want, and that I cannot abide.

Bit strong Drew, why jump to that conclusion?

Read what you posted. I was thinking the exact same thing - not to the extent of calling you an evil cunt, but let's be honest - you want to "stop people thinking the way they do". That's thought control. Sounds pretty darned fascist to me.

You don't have to agree with people's choice of words, or their intentions in using them, but don't you dare try to deny them the right.

robgilmo

Drew_TNBD said:

robgilmo said:

Drew_TNBD said:

And so... we arrive at the point where Rob wanted to get to several pages ago. Go on mate... just say it.. you know you want to. Here... I'll help:

<puts on SJW retard hat>

You can't be racist towards white people

</takes off SJW retard hat>



There you go! Feel better?

Of course you can , I am White (does that surprise you?) and I have been subject to quite severe racism by other white people, and even when I got myself out of that situation that was happening daily I still get subject to it occasionally, racism isn't just about the colour of your skin.

I'm curious - what have you experienced?

Because I'm not English I've held more than one job where my colleagues thought it Ok to think that because I'm not English I was somehow going to be the focus of their ignorance,in one job it got to the point where I was being introduced to customers in a way that both racially embarrassed me and the customer, and this was my ex boss, in the workshop the ''banter'' would single me out because of my race and wouldn't stop, there was never any other ''banter'' than me being singled out. I've had it in most jobs I've worked in this country but since moving to Suffolk it seems to be the ''norm'' here, I grow tired of it very quickly and I did try and say look, this isn't cool but that made it worse.
I worked a job here where my boss ''thought'' my name was Patrick, he fucking knew what my name was but for some reason continued to call me ''Patrick'' , I clicked when I realised that I was being given the workload of the other two employees who got to go home early every other day and I had to work, with no breaks, no lunch, no rest breaks sometimes 12 hours a day, You might think it doesn't happen in this day and age, but I can assure you, it does.
So I have a very strong dislike to anyone who believes it Ok to exercise racial ignorance, which probably for me makes things worse as I may be a little more sensitive to it than most. My latest job, the lads started with the ''banter'' but I'm fucked if I'm going to let it get to the point where it makes me feel like I don't want to go into work so I pretty much nipped it in the bud there and then, it did take me to be very up front and forward, and it still crops up and I still have to get up front and forward so as not to allow it to progress, and to be perfectly fucking honest I shouldn't have to be put in that situation, but I am, and I'm dealing with it. But I have a very strong understanding that race shouldn't be something a person has to defend, ever, so maybe I'm over sensitive, but I don't think I am.

robgilmo

Emp_Fab said:

Yes.  It's singling out people for no other reason than their race.  It makes no difference who says it.

But is he singling them out or making a statement in that ''you white people are all the same, you are all white people''? Nothing derogatory, nothing to say their race is inferior or indeed superior? just an observation,  The point I am trying to make is the media will spin things and portray a set of circumstances or a story with a view to getting a reaction, news papers word things to make you believe you need to be shocked, its what they do, and they are very, very good at it.

digitalscream

robgilmo said:

digitalscream said:

robgilmo said:

capo4th said:

What happened to freedom of speech ?

That doesn't include freedom to insult or freedom to express racist views, if that were the case the world would be a much worse place to live in.

Actually, it does...even in this country. What you can't do is incite hatred or violence, and there's a subtle line between racism and hatred/violence.

(note that I don't support racism in any way, I just happen to like freedom of expression)

As for insulting people...I don't understand where you think that's prohibited in freedom of speech, even with the limited right to freedom of expression we have in the UK.

Freedom of speech is not a ''right'', it wasn't given to us by the government, it may be protected but it is just that you can say what ever you want , when ever you want because human beings have the ability to speak, you can get locked up for saying the wrong things but you will always be allowed to speak and form an opinion, how could a government/law stop you from speaking? Slander or libel is indeed a crime in this country, its not prohibited in freedom of speech but we have covered that already, it doesn't mean you are ''allowed'' to do it, it just means you have the ability and freedom to do it because you are able to speak.

Man, do you even read what you've written?

We do have the right to limited freedom of expression, because of the laws in our statutes. Those rights aren't given to us by the government; in fact, they're mostly taken away by the government (notice that the number of things you're not allowed to talk about only ever increases year-by-year), but that doesn't change the fact that the law gives us those rights.

The limited right to freedom of speech is spelled out in a number of laws, including the slander/libel laws. While I'm on the subject, nothing that you've talked about (insults and racism) has anything to do with slander or libel.

I'm starting to wonder if you're just blurting words onto the page, to be honest. You don't seem to have any understanding of this at all.

octatonic

Gee that escalated quickly.

capo4th

holnrew said:

I don't really find the word offensive

Mmmmm not really sure what to make of that statement maybe just wanting to incite more hatred. 

capo4th

robgilmo said:

Drew_TNBD said:

And so... we arrive at the point where Rob wanted to get to several pages ago. Go on mate... just say it.. you know you want to. Here... I'll help:

<puts on SJW retard hat>

You can't be racist towards white people

</takes off SJW retard hat>



There you go! Feel better?

Of course you can , I am White (does that surprise you?) and I have been subject to quite severe racism by other white people, and even when I got myself out of that situation that was happening daily I still get subject to it occasionally, racism isn't just about the colour of your skin.

Do you have wild flowing orange hair? 

octatonic

Freedom of speech is good.

So is not being subject to this sort of thing:

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/07/10/us/avalanche-of-hate-daily-stormer-lawsuit/index.html

proggy

Nitefly said:

I was on a bus (near Bolton) on Saturday evening with my wife.  There were 3 (white) women in (at a guess) their 50's, dressed as if going out for the evening, waiting at the bus-stop with us.  

When we got on the bus, they all started talking to a black woman of similar age who was already on it - clearly they all knew each other.  She (the black woman) said that word at least 3 times in the few minutes before we got off.

Racism is alive and well.

It's acceptable for black people to use the 'N' word, they're allowed to say it.

Just like white people can say "Thank you for the warning officer"

Col_Decker

What a cluster fuck of a thread.

Drew_TNBD

octatonic said:

Freedom of speech is good.

So is not being subject to this sort of thing:

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/07/10/us/avalanche-of-hate-daily-stormer-lawsuit/index.html

There are already laws to deal with that kind of thing. We don't need to tear up freedom of speech or due process in order to deal with them.

Drew_TNBD

robgilmo said:

Drew_TNBD said:

robgilmo said:

Drew_TNBD said:

And so... we arrive at the point where Rob wanted to get to several pages ago. Go on mate... just say it.. you know you want to. Here... I'll help:

<puts on SJW retard hat>

You can't be racist towards white people

</takes off SJW retard hat>



There you go! Feel better?

Of course you can , I am White (does that surprise you?) and I have been subject to quite severe racism by other white people, and even when I got myself out of that situation that was happening daily I still get subject to it occasionally, racism isn't just about the colour of your skin.

I'm curious - what have you experienced?

Because I'm not English I've held more than one job where my colleagues thought it Ok to think that because I'm not English I was somehow going to be the focus of their ignorance,in one job it got to the point where I was being introduced to customers in a way that both racially embarrassed me and the customer, and this was my ex boss, in the workshop the ''banter'' would single me out because of my race and wouldn't stop, there was never any other ''banter'' than me being singled out. I've had it in most jobs I've worked in this country but since moving to Suffolk it seems to be the ''norm'' here, I grow tired of it very quickly and I did try and say look, this isn't cool but that made it worse.
I worked a job here where my boss ''thought'' my name was Patrick, he fucking knew what my name was but for some reason continued to call me ''Patrick'' , I clicked when I realised that I was being given the workload of the other two employees who got to go home early every other day and I had to work, with no breaks, no lunch, no rest breaks sometimes 12 hours a day, You might think it doesn't happen in this day and age, but I can assure you, it does.
So I have a very strong dislike to anyone who believes it Ok to exercise racial ignorance, which probably for me makes things worse as I may be a little more sensitive to it than most. My latest job, the lads started with the ''banter'' but I'm fucked if I'm going to let it get to the point where it makes me feel like I don't want to go into work so I pretty much nipped it in the bud there and then, it did take me to be very up front and forward, and it still crops up and I still have to get up front and forward so as not to allow it to progress, and to be perfectly fucking honest I shouldn't have to be put in that situation, but I am, and I'm dealing with it. But I have a very strong understanding that race shouldn't be something a person has to defend, ever, so maybe I'm over sensitive, but I don't think I am.

Okay, so you're Irish and you've taken a bunch of shit over the years from English fannyholes who want to pick on you because you're Irish....

... that's not racism bud. That's xenophobia, ignorance, shitty human behaviour, or at the very least crossed wires, miscommunication, misunderstanding, or people just not gelling very well.

Snap

Virtue signalling central this is.

She's a grade A class pillock and a true ignoramus, showing a massive lack of judgment. So that will be a lot of politicians. I remember Diane Abbott coming out with some racist comments towards white people, and then Emily Thornberry with her equally prejudicial white van man comments.

The thing is a lot of these politicians haven't a clue about the real world and live in an ivory tower. They think they are down with the kids, and the "hard working" people, but they aren't.

They are a bunch of wankers.

The furore around what this woman said though: its typical social media outrage flare up. People just love a bit of Daily Mail style righteous objection don't they?

There are far more important things going on in the world that could do with a bit of righteous outrage, as opposed to the stupid gobbing of some stuffed shirt bigot.

Lewy

An elected MP addressing a meeting to discuss Brexit found herself unable to express her point of view without using the N-word. Suspension is the minimum acceptable response for that moment of professional and personal incompetence.

But what I can't get my head around is the fact that that word must carry so little meaning for her to not think twice about using it, even if it was as part of an archaic turn of phrase. It's still the fucking N-word. Even if she's not a racist - to the point where she would not knowingly discriminate against someone on the grounds of their race - how much of a closed minded, entitled turd do you have to be to say that word in a public forum without thought? Would anyone here use it in a post on this forum?

And how much validation and encouragement has she given to actual racists over the years to carry on the way they are?

I believe this is what's referred to as a "teachable moment". I hope she takes it as such.

boogieman

Lewy said:

An elected MP addressing a meeting to discuss Brexit found herself unable to express her point of view without using the N-word. Suspension is the minimum acceptable response for that moment of professional and personal incompetence.

But what I can't get my head around is the fact that that word must carry so little meaning for her to not think twice about using it, even if it was as part of an archaic turn of phrase. It's still the fucking N-word. Even if she's not a racist - to the point where she would not knowingly discriminate against someone on the grounds of their race - how much of a closed minded, entitled turd do you have to be to say that word in a public forum without thought? Would anyone here use it in a post on this forum?

And how much validation and encouragement has she given to actual racists over the years to carry on the way they are?

I believe this is what's referred to as a "teachable moment". I hope she takes it as such.

Agree with this ^ Although I'm old enough to remember the phrase when it was in fairly common usage, I certainly wouldn't use it. It isn't even a phrase that would jump into my head if I was trying to describe that situation, it simply isn't part of my daily vocabulary.

The fact this woman came out with it says a lot: either a) she's ignorant of how racially sensitive the phrase is or b) it IS part of her vocabulary or c) she simply doesn't give a shit. All are pretty shocking for a public figure who's (presumably) educated to a reasonable level and should be aware that their comments will be put out in the public arena. 

Funkfingers

boogieman said:
should be aware that their comments will be put out in the public arena. 

The use of racially derogatory language in a public meeting - albeit one with a self-selecting audience - serves mainly to expose the MP's lack of contact with the wider public. 

In this era of Orwellian thoughtcrime, laws exist to control what people write and say. This cannot change what some people will think. Thus, as in many areas of life, the knack is to not get caught. The mindset is unlikely to disappear any time soon.

It seems to me that all humans dislike some other humans some of the time. Preventing people from ever expressing their dislikes is likely to result in other outlets being found. e.g. Disgruntled ex-employees running riot, brandishing lethal weapons.

Lewy

Funkfingers said:

In this era of Orwellian thoughtcrime, laws exist to control what people write and say. This cannot change what some people will think.

True, you can't control what someone thinks but it's hardly Orwellian to seek to influence how people think, and lead them to think in new and different ways..unless education in any form is to be considered Orwellian too?

CabbageCat

robgilmo said:

Drew_TNBD said:

robgilmo said:

Drew_TNBD said:

And so... we arrive at the point where Rob wanted to get to several pages ago. Go on mate... just say it.. you know you want to. Here... I'll help:

<puts on SJW retard hat>

You can't be racist towards white people

</takes off SJW retard hat>



There you go! Feel better?

Of course you can , I am White (does that surprise you?) and I have been subject to quite severe racism by other white people, and even when I got myself out of that situation that was happening daily I still get subject to it occasionally, racism isn't just about the colour of your skin.

I'm curious - what have you experienced?

Because I'm not English I've held more than one job where my colleagues thought it Ok to think that because I'm not English I was somehow going to be the focus of their ignorance,in one job it got to the point where I was being introduced to customers in a way that both racially embarrassed me and the customer, and this was my ex boss, in the workshop the ''banter'' would single me out because of my race and wouldn't stop, there was never any other ''banter'' than me being singled out. I've had it in most jobs I've worked in this country but since moving to Suffolk it seems to be the ''norm'' here, I grow tired of it very quickly and I did try and say look, this isn't cool but that made it worse.
I worked a job here where my boss ''thought'' my name was Patrick, he fucking knew what my name was but for some reason continued to call me ''Patrick'' , I clicked when I realised that I was being given the workload of the other two employees who got to go home early every other day and I had to work, with no breaks, no lunch, no rest breaks sometimes 12 hours a day, You might think it doesn't happen in this day and age, but I can assure you, it does.
So I have a very strong dislike to anyone who believes it Ok to exercise racial ignorance, which probably for me makes things worse as I may be a little more sensitive to it than most. My latest job, the lads started with the ''banter'' but I'm fucked if I'm going to let it get to the point where it makes me feel like I don't want to go into work so I pretty much nipped it in the bud there and then, it did take me to be very up front and forward, and it still crops up and I still have to get up front and forward so as not to allow it to progress, and to be perfectly fucking honest I shouldn't have to be put in that situation, but I am, and I'm dealing with it. But I have a very strong understanding that race shouldn't be something a person has to defend, ever, so maybe I'm over sensitive, but I don't think I am.

If that is to be considered racism (which is not technically accurate, though I get that the definition of racism has blurred to include all bigotry) then, in answer to your earlier question: Yes, I have been the victim of racism. I am English and have often found that nationals of other nearby states do not hold the English in very high regard.

Heartfeltdawn

Nitefly said:

How then shall we watch Blazing Saddles, o wise ones?

Not so very long ago, the word "c*nt" was absolutely verboten, much as "n*gger" is now.  And yet, I read it nearly ever day on this very forum.

Try watching it with context. The co-writers of the film included at least two Jewish individuals and a black gentleman. Those using the racial epithets are parodies, mocked for their stupidity. That goes for both the bad guys and for the God fearing citizens of Rock Ridge. 

Nigger is a term aimed at a very specific group of humanity, one that has suffered a fair degree of persecution and slavery over time. 

As far as I am aware, cunt is a broad term, not restricted to one gender or ethnic group, and the KKK don't want to hang them. 

57Deluxe

I can actually remember being taken to C&As in Kingston as a small child and my Mother buying me a pair of Nigger Brown trousers... they were actually labelled on the racks as such. Was then also an official BS colour as P(ost) O(ffice) Red is still today.