Recent events in Charlottesville.

Emp_Fab

I'd rather be a (goes back to check) 'spasticated idiot fucking Welsh mongoloid' than a domineering, woman-hating, balding nazi-sympathising cockney wanker.

Still, it takes all sorts to make a world. 

Lewy

Drew_TNBD said:

ewal said:

Drew_TNBD said:

brojangles said:

which is what the bulk of the Confederate statues were put up to do

This is where I'd like to see proof. Because I've not seen anyone provide any concrete evidence that this is why those Confederate statues were put there. I have seen proof that they were put there to honour the dead, because it's written on a lot of them.

If there was proof that these statues were put up several decades after the war to re-emphasise white superiority, would you have more sympathy towards the argument that they now should go?

Yes, or at the least into a museum. But I'd want true empirical truth, not conjecture.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/amp.history.com/news/how-the-u-s-got-so-many-confederate-monuments

Some research about the timing. I doubt it's possible to find empirical truth about the intent.

Evilmags

Emp_Fab said:

I don't get this lily-livered hand-wringing sitting on the fence centrist shit.  All this yap yap yap by people without the balls of their forebears to stand up and say that Nazism is evil and must be extinguished at any cost.  "Ooh, they have the right to argue their corner", "Oh, the "leftist extremists" were just as bad".. etc.  Fuck off... "Leftist extremists" my arse...   It was Nazis .... and not Nazis.  It was people who believe in the persecution of minorities vs people who believe in civil liberty.  

Getting bogged down in who threw the first punch etc is to deliberately avoid facing the far, far, FAR bigger issue that Nazis are holding rallies again...   Anyone with an ounce of sense or the slightest comprehension of modern history must surely know that they cannot be permitted to spread their hatred and bile again.  I would have liked to have accompanied his post with some very real photos of the very real things done in the name of Nazism, but some things are just too horrific.  Which is exactly what the idea of a Nazi rally should be to every right-thinking human.

While the left freely promotes communism and socialism, ideas directly responsible for vastly more death, destruction, tyranny, torture and imprisonment than Nazism? Marxists speaking out on Nazism is like axe murderers speaking out on serial killer.  

A bunch of redneck's acting like tossers hardly constitutes a coherent nazi movement. Just a bunch of idiots having a small town riot. The way the media and trump hating lefties are blowing it so far out of proportion is ridiculous. Talk about giving arseholes free publicity. 

Drew_TNBD

Emp_Fab said:

I'd rather be a (goes back to check) 'spasticated idiot fucking Welsh mongoloid' than a domineering, woman-hating, balding nazi-sympathising cockney wanker.

Still, it takes all sorts to make a world. 

Domineering... check.
Woman-hating... denied.
Balding... check.
Nazi-sympathizing... eat a fucking dick you cunthole.
Cockney... nah.
Wanker... yep.

ewal

Lewy said:

Drew_TNBD said:

ewal said:

Drew_TNBD said:

brojangles said:

which is what the bulk of the Confederate statues were put up to do

This is where I'd like to see proof. Because I've not seen anyone provide any concrete evidence that this is why those Confederate statues were put there. I have seen proof that they were put there to honour the dead, because it's written on a lot of them.

If there was proof that these statues were put up several decades after the war to re-emphasise white superiority, would you have more sympathy towards the argument that they now should go?

Yes, or at the least into a museum. But I'd want true empirical truth, not conjecture.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/amp.history.com/news/how-the-u-s-got-so-many-confederate-monuments

Some research about the timing. I doubt it's possible to find empirical truth about the intent.

Indeed. And no matter the original intent, they obviously do now symbolise white superiority to a lot of people, including black residents in these towns and white supremacist organisations. That's enough to convince me they should go.

JezWynd

Interesting interview with LBJ's press sec. about Trump's fitness for office and the statue issue. Start at 5:40 for history of statues erection.

TimmyO

OK, I haven't read every post, but is there a consensus that Nazis = bad ? 

Drew_TNBD

TimmyO said:

OK, I haven't read every post, but is there a consensus that Nazis = bad ? 

Yes. There just isn't consensus that other groups might be almost or just as bad.

TimmyO

Fair enough.

My starting position though is that I'm going to struggle to think of a group that deserves that reputation - who am I missing? 

Evilmags

Communists killed far more people...

Drew_TNBD

TimmyO said:

Fair enough.

My starting position though is that I'm going to struggle to think of a group that deserves that reputation - who am I missing? 

Look at Venezuela right now. Look at antifa and the number of their members who have explicitly gone out to bash Trump supporters into the ground. Look at Castro. How about the Weather Underground? 

This study goes into it in some detail also:
https://fas.org/irp/world/para/left.pdf

The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) reports that although leftist-oriented extremist groups posed the predominate domestic terrorism threat over the past three decades, right-wing extremist groups that adhere to antigovernment and racist ideologies are the increasing concern today (Federal Bureau of Investigation, 1995). The threat from the left is diminished as a result of the arrest of many of its leaders and the loss of support from nations formerly affiliated with, or part of, the Soviet Union (Federal Bureau of Investigation, 1995).

Although the threat from leftist extremists has decreased in the past decade, it should not be ignored. From 1980 to 1985, a five-year period when leftist domestic terrorists were most active in the United States, 173 terrorist incidents were recorded by the FBI (Federal Bureau of Investigation, 1995). During the next 10 years, when right-wing 5 extremists were most active, only 83 incidents were recorded (Federal Bureau of Investigation, 1995). Because leftist extremists are better educated than members of right-wing groups, they have the ability to organize more effectively, and once committed to a militant revolution, they are more of a threat.

Extremism runs in cycles. Leftist extremists are very active for a decade or more, and as they fade, right-wing extremists become active. During the late 1960s to the middle 1980s, leftist extremism was the greatest threat in the United States. From the mid-1980s to the present, the major threat of domestic terrorism has been primarily from right-wing extremists. If the cycle theory is correct, then left-wing terrorism will increase within the next few years. 

Cue the lol_fabulous....