Who's got a small name independent guitar?

danishbacon

I'm considering making my first independent luthier scratch build purchase soon and wanted to hear other people's experiences. The builder is a one man operation, scratch builder down to the pickup plates/magnets. 
I'm considering one of two guitars he currently has available. Although neither are the 'perfect' guitar if there is such a thing, they do both speak to me and I will be trying them out again soon. 

I do not want to go down the custom route as I prefer to play a built instrument and know the rabbit hole that a custom build can turn into. I know that resale value should be far less of a consideration but I do see small name guitars selling for fair prices so they do tend to retain a big chunk of residual vale or so it seems. 

I've heard of experiences from people who have purchased similar builds in the past with one or two raving as the last instrument they will buy. Not sure of any negative experiences. 

Would be very interested in hearing general general thoughts before I spend the money I probably won't see again. 

WezV

If you can play it, like it, and are happy with the price you have little to lose.

If you are thinking about resale, then its probably not for you.

danishbacon

WezV said:

If you can play it, like it, and are happy with the price you have little to lose.

If you are thinking about resale, then its probably not for you.

Thanks Wez, second part makes absolute sense, I guess it's just that over the last couple of years of going through not an insignificant amount of guitars and mostly not bonding with the majority for one reason or another, it just became second nature to consider resale. That being said most if not all of them were purchased sight unseen or just collected after agreeing to purchase, so that the falling out of love happened at home. 

These guitars will be the third time I get to play, and first time properly with my amp and paddleboard to make a decision.

Sassafras

If you're a serial flipper, I'd concentrate on the easy to resell big name brands.

danishbacon

Sassafras said:

If you're a serial flipper, I'd concentrate on the easy to resell big name brands.

Well that's kind of what happened, and when I got into strats, strats were the only ones in and out. Then I realised that the strat that originally made me fall in love with strats was the only one I couldn't bring myself to sell and the one that I kept coming back to. 

What im trying to do is get the 'last' guitar, now that I have a pretty good sense of what I like/don't like in an instrument and have a more defined playing style. I guess the cost/resale mention I made in the original post was more just to cover all bases. I want a guitar I won't want to sell. 

I guess a beyter question is, has someone here purchased a guitar, after playing, with this view and eventually fell out of love?

is this all futile?

whats the meaning of life?

earwighoney

danishbacon said:

I'm considering making my first independent luthier scratch build purchase soon and wanted to hear other people's experiences. The builder is a one man operation, scratch builder down to the pickup plates/magnets. 
I'm considering one of two guitars he currently has available. Although neither are the 'perfect' guitar if there is such a thing, they do both speak to me and I will be trying them out again soon. 

I do not want to go down the custom route as I prefer to play a built instrument and know the rabbit hole that a custom build can turn into. I know that resale value should be far less of a consideration but I do see small name guitars selling for fair prices so they do tend to retain a big chunk of residual vale or so it seems. 

I've heard of experiences from people who have purchased similar builds in the past with one or two raving as the last instrument they will buy. Not sure of any negative experiences. 

Would be very interested in hearing general general thoughts before I spend the money I probably won't see again. 

Going down the custom route for a new build guitar isn't for everyone.  

One of the criteria is how long one is willing to wait.  If you want something immediately then a luthier built instrument might not be for you.  When it comes to waiting times as well, I'd always take the ones quoted with a pinch of salt as in the real world it can be very easy for luthiers to run over expected time schedules. 

If you do decide to go through the custom route, I'd recommend trying to speak to other customers of theirs and what their experiences are.  Another thing which I'd suggest is to really decide what you are after, take as much time as is needed to fully decide on what you after. 

TTony

danishbacon said:

I'm considering one of two guitars he currently has available. Although neither are the 'perfect' guitar if there is such a thing, they do both speak to me and I will be trying them out again soon. 

I have a few that would quality as "small independent" builds, and will probably never sell any of them, for differing reasons.

I say that to illustrate that I have absolutely nothing against the small independent builders, and have bought their wares rather than ploughing equivalent ££s into the big name brands.

But I think I'd want to at least start out on that journey thinking that whatever I was buying was the "perfect" guitar.  You're paying a lot of money, and have to accept that you'll never get it back on resale, so you have to be pretty confident that its going to be a keeper.  If neither of those are really what you want, configure what you do really want and have him (or someone else - there's plenty of options around) build it for you.

monofin

I've been through a fair few. Lost out heavily on those that I've flipped but that's all part of the experience I think

danishbacon

earwighoney said:

Going down the custom route for a new build guitar isn't for everyone.  

One of the criteria is how long one is willing to wait.  If you want something immediately then a luthier built instrument might not be for you.  When it comes to waiting times as well, I'd always take the ones quoted with a pinch of salt as in the real world it can be very easy for luthiers to run over expected time schedules. 

If you do decide to go through the custom route, I'd recommend trying to speak to other customers of theirs and what their experiences are.  Another thing which I'd suggest is to really decide what you are after, take as much time as is needed to fully decide on what you after. 

Well I think I've pretty much ruled Custom out on the basis of playability. I'm fairly confident that I know what I like/don't like looks/feel/tone wise, but at the end of the day nothing is going to really ensure that the end result is *exactly* what I want, especially 2-3 years down the line. Because of this I think one of his 2 already built guitars are a good option - I can play them now and make a decision based on it's merits as a physical instrument. 

danishbacon

TTony said:

danishbacon said:

I'm considering one of two guitars he currently has available. Although neither are the 'perfect' guitar if there is such a thing, they do both speak to me and I will be trying them out again soon. 

I have a few that would quality as "small independent" builds, and will probably never sell any of them, for differing reasons.

I say that to illustrate that I have absolutely nothing against the small independent builders, and have bought their wares rather than ploughing equivalent ££s into the big name brands.

But I think I'd want to at least start out on that journey thinking that whatever I was buying was the "perfect" guitar.  You're paying a lot of money, and have to accept that you'll never get it back on resale, so you have to be pretty confident that its going to be a keeper.  If neither of those are really what you want, configure what you do really want and have him (or someone else - there's plenty of options around) build it for you.

Thanks for the insight @TTony, I guess with respect to "perfect" I have to reevaluate what it actually means to me. 

danishbacon

monofin said:

I've been through a fair few. Lost out heavily on those that I've flipped but that's all part of the experience I think

@monofin could you please elaborate on a case or two of the ones you sold? Did you try them before? What changed?

Kalimna

Regards the playability, if it is a custom made guitar, would you not have the opportunity to play it before it is finished? In other words, the neck carve might have potential for adjustment before the finish is applied, the pickups could be changed, as could the specifics of the electronics. The only thing that would be somewhat difficult to change would be the scale length, wood chosen and bridge.

I have a Brook acoustic guitar with a couple of custom features (mostly aesthetic) and whilst it may not be the perfect guitar, it is damn close and I love it to bits. Plus the chaps at Brook are top blokes too. I am also about to take the plunge on a small-builder electric, and am only apprehensive about the cost (which is still a damn good price).

Resale is never going to be good value, unless some internet mojo suggests otherwise.

Adam

OilCityPickups

danishbacon said:

I'm considering making my first independent luthier scratch build purchase soon and wanted to hear other people's experiences. The builder is a one man operation, scratch builder down to the pickup plates/magnets. 
I'm considering one of two guitars he currently has available. Although neither are the 'perfect' guitar if there is such a thing, they do both speak to me and I will be trying them out again soon. 

I do not want to go down the custom route as I prefer to play a built instrument and know the rabbit hole that a custom build can turn into. I know that resale value should be far less of a consideration but I do see small name guitars selling for fair prices so they do tend to retain a big chunk of residual vale or so it seems. 

I've heard of experiences from people who have purchased similar builds in the past with one or two raving as the last instrument they will buy. Not sure of any negative experiences. 

Would be very interested in hearing general general thoughts before I spend the money I probably won't see again. 

If you buy a guitar to play, I would have no hesitation about going small maker. If you regard guitar swapping rather than playing as your main source of enjoyment, go for a big brand. It's a fact that Gibson or Fender on the headstock keeps the price up, but as we have seen from both those brands that over their individual histories price has not always been a measure of their quality, simply their fame. 
As @TTony says, if you are dropping fairly big bucks on a hand built instrument it should be 'perfect' or as near perfect as it can be made, so as he says, chat to a maker about it, try some of his guitars, and if you can wait for the build process, and are happy that you are going to lose money if you 'flip it' ... go for it.

As an aside, I always chuckle when I see folks (as I did the other day) drop £1500 quid on a games computer that in a few short years will be hopelessly archaic, and worth less than the cardboard box it came in ... then the same person was moaning that UK guitars don't keep their value! I think that actually ... compared to that £600 smart phone, or an Oculus Rift headset ... a hand made guitar is a bloody solid investment!

hoveguitarguy

get a damien probett guitar - the first and last guitar you will ever need

earwighoney

TheGuitarWeasel said:

If you buy a guitar to play, I would have no hesitation about going small maker. If you regard guitar swapping rather than playing as your main source of enjoyment, go for a big brand. It's a fact that Gibson or Fender on the headstock keeps the price up, but as we have seen from both those brands that over their individual histories price has not always been a measure of their quality, simply their fame. 
As @TTony says, if you are dropping fairly big bucks on a hand built instrument it should be 'perfect' or as near perfect as it can be made, so as he says, chat to a maker about it, try some of his guitars, and if you can wait for the build process, and are happy that you are going to lose money if you 'flip it' ... go for it.

As an aside, I always chuckle when I see folks (as I did the other day) drop £1500 quid on a games computer that in a few short years will be hopelessly archaic, and worth less than the cardboard box it came in ... then the same person was moaning that UK guitars don't keep their value! I think that actually ... compared to that £600 smart phone, or an Oculus Rift headset ... a hand made guitar is a bloody solid investment!

I agree entirely Ash.  

monofin

danishbacon said:

monofin said:

I've been through a fair few. Lost out heavily on those that I've flipped but that's all part of the experience I think

@monofin could you please elaborate on a case or two of the ones you sold? Did you try them before? What changed?

I went through a phase of buying small name British guitars. I was a serious flipper and always after the next shiny thing. Nowt wrong with those I sold on but the name on the headstock means a lot when you're trying to sell. Even found that with Feline. All that said, the fun is in the chase:)

danishbacon

TheGuitarWeasel said:

danishbacon said:

If you buy a guitar to play, I would have no hesitation about going small maker. If you regard guitar swapping rather than playing as your main source of enjoyment, go for a big brand. It's a fact that Gibson or Fender on the headstock keeps the price up, but as we have seen from both those brands that over their individual histories price has not always been a measure of their quality, simply their fame. 
As @TTony says, if you are dropping fairly big bucks on a hand built instrument it should be 'perfect' or as near perfect as it can be made, so as he says, chat to a maker about it, try some of his guitars, and if you can wait for the build process, and are happy that you are going to lose money if you 'flip it' ... go for it.

As an aside, I always chuckle when I see folks (as I did the other day) drop £1500 quid on a games computer that in a few short years will be hopelessly archaic, and worth less than the cardboard box it came in ... then the same person was moaning that UK guitars don't keep their value! I think that actually ... compared to that £600 smart phone, or an Oculus Rift headset ... a hand made guitar is a bloody solid investment!

Things happened in parallel - I went through a bunch of different guitars, learned what makes a good guitar from a bad one, my playing improved and I learned what the guitar meant to me as an instrument. The fact that we are able to try different used instruments without risking too big a loss is conductive to the whole process. Seems like a cumbersome but enjoyable way to understand the nuanced differences between a jumbo fretted rosewood neck and a thin fretted maple one without actually playing them for more than 5-10 minutes in a shop. 

It it took me one full fledged les Paul and one junior to realize that gibsons are not for me. 

With respect to depreciation, I agree fully. 

Grunfeld

danishbacon said:

...I've heard of experiences from people who have purchased similar builds in the past with one or two raving as the last instrument they will buy.

I've got a "perfect" guitar in mind, and, if I ever get around to it I'll have it made locally, but I doubt it will be the last guitar I'll ever buy.  I kind of see it as a perfect custom guitar if that makes sense. 

OilCityPickups

danishbacon said:

TheGuitarWeasel said:

danishbacon said:

If you buy a guitar to play, I would have no hesitation about going small maker. If you regard guitar swapping rather than playing as your main source of enjoyment, go for a big brand. It's a fact that Gibson or Fender on the headstock keeps the price up, but as we have seen from both those brands that over their individual histories price has not always been a measure of their quality, simply their fame. 
As @TTony says, if you are dropping fairly big bucks on a hand built instrument it should be 'perfect' or as near perfect as it can be made, so as he says, chat to a maker about it, try some of his guitars, and if you can wait for the build process, and are happy that you are going to lose money if you 'flip it' ... go for it.

As an aside, I always chuckle when I see folks (as I did the other day) drop £1500 quid on a games computer that in a few short years will be hopelessly archaic, and worth less than the cardboard box it came in ... then the same person was moaning that UK guitars don't keep their value! I think that actually ... compared to that £600 smart phone, or an Oculus Rift headset ... a hand made guitar is a bloody solid investment!

Things happened in parallel - I went through a bunch of different guitars, learned what makes a good guitar from a bad one, my playing improved and I learned what the guitar meant to me as an instrument. The fact that we are able to try different used instruments without risking too big a loss is conductive to the whole process. Seems like a cumbersome but enjoyable way to understand the nuanced differences between a jumbo fretted rosewood neck and a thin fretted maple one without actually playing them for more than 5-10 minutes in a shop. 

It it took me one full fledged les Paul and one junior to realize that gibsons are not for me. 

With respect to depreciation, I agree fully. 

I agree that one probably has to have owned several types of guitar in ones career to fully understand what one needs and wants in a custom instrument, and I'd probably never recommend one as a beginners tool. But when one gets ones ducks in a row and works out what the 'must have's' are ... then I think the custom route is a final step for some.
Jonathan @FelineGuitars  and I have talked at length about my own ideal instrument ... which hopefully I'll be getting him to make for me when funds allow: Huge, railroad track frets in a fairly slim mahogany/rosewood neck, Flying V body and neck with P90s ... as if Gibson had made a 58 'Flying V Junior' ... simple, understated finish single ply black scratchplate. Mmmmmmmm 

Iamnobody

hoveguitarguy said:

get a damien probett guitar - the first and last guitar you will ever need

They might be the best playing guitar money can buy for all I know - but the hybrid/bastard son of classics design does nothing for me. 

OP's question is difficult - the main reason (I would think) most people choose a guitar from a small builder would be to go the custom route and have some input into the spec.

Buying a completed model takes that input away, but also removes the risk of the unknown. 

Tricky decision...do they play better than other volume produced guitars at the same price? Do you like the look of them?

Sassafras

If you like vintage Strats but don't want to pay vintage money, you could do worse than getting a Bravewood.