So bigger family, bigger car needed.... is there any positive way to buy a car?

ThorpyFX

Ive been researching getting a bigger car for the wife. So far I am massively disspointed in the whole process.

initially i thought A PCP sounded alright, but basically any new large vehicle costs £20k in depreciation over four years with nothing to show for it at the end. Even if I could afford that, I could never stomach it. 

the used market means taking a risk with smaller dealers to  get a decent deal, buying private for the best deal. Or going to a main dealer for a bit of security (but paying more) 

anyway i I guess I'm just moaning cos the whole process sucks and costs the earth to buy anything.

Anyone have any top tips to reduce the pain here both financially and mentally?

Iamnobody

What sort of annual mileage are you looking at? 

If it's 8-10k a lease is probably the way forward. How about this:

https://www.contracthireandleasing.com/main-dealers/triangle-kia-chesterfield/kia/optima/214261224/

£7641.38 over 3 years. That will  beat the depreciation on the same vehicle.

Thats just an example - there are loads of lease deals around. 

RaymondLin

Get something 3 years old, basically people changing because their lease has just ran out, not because something is about to break.  The bulk of deepest deprecation is done so what is left is much easier to stomach.

Being 3 years old it is likely that any faults would have been fixed under warranty so there should be no reason why the 1st owner didn't get anything fixed when it came up.  Use MOT History check online to see what the MOT, if there was any fault after its first MOT.

The following points are just me.

I avoid ads that says "1 single lady owner"….stereotyping but lady owner means leather in the car full of knicks from their nails and rings.  The clutch would have had a hard life.  The car would be hardly washed or washed by those £5 car wash which uses acid base TFC, they don't check engine oil and just don't take care of the car like men.  Of course there are exceptions but that is my experience, of the people I know.  Sure, they might take it to the dealer and just get things fixed, but day to day use, the car seem to have a harder life.  Especially those bought by women who does shopping in them, low mileage may be but it would have had millions of stop start, clutch up and down, engine barely warmed up short runs.  As opposed to some sales guy buying a cruiser and get it up and down the M1 in 7th gear and hardly stopped at all.

I also like to see 4 matching tyres, at least they replace them in pairs.  If the ads says "extremely well looked after" and you see 4 mismatched tyres….yeah right.

If the ads says "only run on v-power"….ask them for receipts !

I hate it too when they say "pulls like a train", it's a 1.2L Aygo FFS, it pulls like a shopping trolley….avoid!!!!

Look for receipts for things like tyres, wheel alignment (big plus!), receipts for any work done like new brake pads or discs.

jellyroll

Get a car and keep it for 8 - 10 years. The last 4 years cost nowt.

chillidoggy

Straight lease rather than a PCP. No deposit, no option to buy at the end, either. I got my new Mondeo on a three-year lease deal, as I had no real desire to own a car, so it made sense for me. Went to John Grose in Ipswich, very good for Fords.

TTony

ThorpyFX said:

anyway i I guess I'm just moaning cos the whole process sucks and costs the earth to buy anything.

Anyone have any top tips to reduce the pain here both financially and mentally?

Whichever way you look at it, a car is an expensive thing and you have to pay, one way or another.

My approach has always been to buy new, buy decent, and run it for 10+ years.  That way, I get exactly what I want, any issues with the car are sorted under warranty, I get it serviced properly and "know" it, and they run reliably.

Downside is that I take the initial depreciation hit, but that gets less painful if you look at it over the 10years.  And you need a large chunk of cash up front (or take out a finance deal).

If you buy at 3yrs old, you'll pay (roughly) half the new price and - unless you want something esoteric - there should be enough choice that you get the config you want.  Downside is that you don't know how the car has been (mis)treated in its first years and you're probably out of the manufacturer warranty period.  But buy from a proper dealer and you'll get some sort of warranty.

The various lease / PCP options are essentially a way of buying a means of transport for the contract period rather than the car itself.  You never own the "asset", but its a rapidly depreciating asset, so why would you want to own it?  The monthly cost essentially covers the depreication cost plus a financing cost (which can be quite high in APR terms), but thats all bundled into an attractively priced monthly amount.  The lease companies buy in bulk so get big discounts from the manufacturers which gets reflected in that monthly charge.

At the end of the contract, walk away and start another contract.  

Downside - if your life changes and that £299/£399/£499 monthly charge suddenly becomes less affordable, then you lose the car and your credit history takes a hit.  Then you've got to find a replacement at exactly the time you've got no cash.  Another downside is the over-mileage rate and the risk of "repair" costs if the car is dinged / scratched / etc whenever you hand it back.


Whichever way you do it, it costs.  Which option you go for depends on you cash-in-bank position, how "important" a nice shiny new car is to you, your attitude to risk, etc, so whats right for one person isn't right for another (despite what the salesperson tells you!).


Another option is the bangernomics approach.  Buy cheap and scrap it when it becomes uneconomic to keep it on the road.  Cover yourself with the AA to reduce the risk of being stranded somewhere.  If you're lucky, you find a decent runner that gives you a few years.  If you're not so lucky, you get to drive a different car every few months

RandallFlagg

jellyroll said:

Get a car and keep it for 8 - 10 years. The last 4 years cost nowt.

This is the purchase model I chose after several years of buying older cars and then new ones on PCP. We buy nearly new, 1 year old cars so they have lost a good chunk of depreciation already and plan to keep then for a long time.

kaypeejay

You could look for a model that is about to have a facelift or be replaced. These are usually sold with big discounts and a lot of extras thrown in. I bought my Octavia brand new just before the model changed and got 25% off list price and then haggled for a bit more. That's a big chunk of the depreciation taken care of and then I intend to keep it for 8-10 yrs anyway. 

It's lovely having brand new cars every couple of years but it will cost you big time. 

Fuengi

I bought a 1987 VW T2 camper for £3k and sold it for £7k... but spent a shitload on maintenance.

You'll always lose money on cars one way or the other.

My strategy is now to spend around £1500 on a used but well maintained car and run it until I scrap it. That seems the most cost efficient as I'll get around 60k - 80k of use at for my money. 

MtB

Buy a main dealer ex-demo car. You'll still get a good warranty, and the dealer has taken the bulk of the hit on the initial depreciation.
I bought my Ford Focus as an ex demo at 4 months old - 2000 miles on the clock, and with a £3k price reduction. It had been valeted before I picked it up, so it looked like new. I've now owned it for just over 3 years, had no problems with it and put an additional 58,000 miles on the clock. Just mulling over at the moment whether to sell it now to fund another (with a better spec) or just keep it til I retire in 4 years time - and then get something a bit different. 

ToneControl

there's a few options, constrained by the type of car you want (which determines the supply and demand scenario):

I have not done this research since the last time I bought 3 years ago, but here's what I have learned:

• MPVs are stupidly expensive used
• whatever new type of vehicle is popular will cost a lot used
• cheapest (i.e. most discounted) used cars are always the ex-fleet ex-lease cars from non-prestige manufacturers (e.g. mondeos, insignias)
• some massive discounts exist for new cars, check https://broadspeed.com/ , go through all the brands and models and find ones where there are the most discounts - sometimes a particular model is discounted by 40% in the UK, as the maker tries to get more market share, or where a model that is due to be updated in 2 years, etc. Once you know the model you can consider the different finance options
• if you have a personal limited company, you should consider buying a new electric car, the tax savings are huge

then you need to decide which tactic
my normal tactic was: buy a big saloon that is 3-5 years old, then run until it's 10 years old
this time I bought new, with the intention to keep for 10 years, I'm still uncomfortable with the cost up front (although I got a 35% discount, so did not suffer an instant loss of value), but it is a valid option

also look at depreciation curves:
buying a used Merc, Audi or BMW is not cheap, but a used Ford or Vauxhall is.
In most countries, the depreciation curve is gradual, over 10 years or more - here it is very unusual, it drops massively for 3 years, then slows down: many cars are only worth 30% of the new value at 3 years old

EricTheWeary

You used to get a glut of three year old cars just out of warranty, ex company and lease cars and careful filtering through is were the bargains were but all that has shrunk. We've tended to accept that we don't know our way around cars all that brilliantly and gone to dealers looking at vehicles that are ex demo or used up to about two years old so the initial depreciation has gone and although they won't be bargains if there's stuff to be sorted under warranty or just teething problems they can be sorted fairly quickly/easily. 

First stage is deciding what you want and only talking to dealers once you have something fairly specific in mind and doing five minutes of reading on that - ' yes, I know that was the limited model with the better stereo but it still had the old engine so I'm not interested in that one' - and having a price in mind so you know when to walk away. 

Unless you are good at/ have time to do/ have a mate who is happy  to do the work the bangernomics approach requires a lot of luck.
 I had a mate who did that, usually had a couple of cars per year but I went through the costs with him one day and my brand new lease car at the time ( okay, it was a Ford Fiesta) was costing me less. 

iseverynamegone

When in the same situation I bought a 3 yr old Kia Sorrento privately  The worst part of depreciation is gone and as long as the service records are upto date its under warranty for another 4 years. 

In the same shoes today I'd look at a post Jan 2015 outlander phev which came with 5yrs warranty. 

octatonic

I agree with @TTony.
Also, this:

TheMarlin

Buy an ex-lease car.  I get a new car every three years (leased).  I have to deal with all the issues with that new car over the three years, the factory recalls, the faulty parts - It's serviced regularly, taken care of, and returned in pretty fantastic condition at the end of that three years.

In December my Mondeo estate goes back.  Full leather in perfect condition, all the extras, the engine is excellent.  It's had two new drive shafts (they both failed in under 2000 miles, was a new model with problems).  It's had the satnav and stereo replaced,  had two engine faults replaced (dodgy sensors),  had the parking sensors replaced etc etc......I've put up with a long list of problems.

Now, as that three years comes to an end, it's all good.  It runs perfectly, mechanically excellent. drives well, comfy on long journeys - huge boot means it's great for tip runs and taking the family to the airport with cases and hand luggage. It's finally completely problem free (apart from the metal trim on the gear stick that flakes off resulting in metal splinters in hand - same issue with the keys).

In December, the lease company will pick it up, and drop off a new one.  They'll sell the old one at auction, and someone is going to get a car that's very nice, all the problems sorted, nicely run in (driven for fuel economy, not speed),   The car at the end of that lease is a better car than when it was first delivered to me.

I'll get another new one delivered, and the problems will begin all over again....!

Marlin

octatonic

TheMarlin said:

Buy an ex-lease car.  I get a new car every three years (leased).  I have to deal with all the issues with that new car over the three years, the factory recalls, the faulty parts - It's serviced regularly, taken care of, and returned in pretty fantastic condition at the end of that three years.

In December my Mondeo estate goes back.  Full leather in perfect condition, all the extras, the engine is excellent.  It's had two new drive shafts (they both failed in under 2000 miles, was a new model with problems).  It's had the satnav and stereo replaced,  had two engine faults replaced (dodgy sensors),  had the parking sensors replaced etc etc......I've put up with a long list of problems.

Now, as that three years comes to an end, it's all good.  It runs perfectly, mechanically excellent. drives well, comfy on long journeys - huge boot means it's great for tip runs and taking the family to the airport with cases and hand luggage. It's finally completely problem free (apart from the metal trim on the gear stick that flakes off resulting in metal splinters in hand - same issue with the keys).

In December, the lease company will pick it up, and drop off a new one.  They'll sell the old one at auction, and someone is going to get a car that's very nice, all the problems sorted, nicely run in (driven for fuel economy, not speed),   The car at the end of that lease is a better car than when it was first delivered to me.

I'll get another new one delivered, and the problems will begin all over again....!

Marlin

I have to say that sounds like exceptionally shit reliability.
I've had 4 new BMW's and had one recall for an airbag and that is it.

LuttiS

I got a new car recently, i had a friend who has just opened used car garage so he checked the book price for me, and had access to auto trader trade section. Actually went to a private seller, who had listed a £9k car for slightly over trade price (£6k - Golf MK6, TDI 1.6, 60k). Car was checked over and bought my mates garage, who i then bought it from (no mark up, but he was closer and had mechanic go through everything). I know £6k is a fair wedge, but i can't stomach the depreciation on cars, so i'm buying good quality and will run it to the ground over (hopefully) many years. Also i saved £3k from value. 

Morale of the story, get a mate with access to trade deals. 

TheMarlin

Yes, this one was a bit of a pig.  The previous one was was less hassle.   My point is, all the issues are now sorted, it's finally a decent car that's been well looked after.  The next owner will be a damn site happier than I was with it.

I had a Lexus before that, never had any issues with it whatsoever.

TTony

MtB said:

Buy a main dealer ex-demo car. 

Never buy a main dealer ex-demo car

1. They're often over-specced with all the toys and extras possible, and even after the dealer has taken a depreciation hit, you'll still be paying for a load of toys that probably wouldn't have chosen to buy.
2. That's the worst possible way of running in a new car - lots of short journeys from cold and (depending on what it is) lots of high rev, clutch abusing, short journeys from cold.

But yes, they'll be polished to within an inch of their lives and will positively shine on the forecourt ...

ThorpyFX

There are a lot of good options here, I am looking for the following type of car, purely based on size:

Honda CR-V
Skoda Kodiaq
Kia sorrento
BMW X3
Audi Q5
Seat Atteca
Hyundai Tucson
VW tiguan....

etc. Leasing looks to be ok, although financially the consensus seems that a 4 year old car is probably the best balance. I have done bangernomics in the past but my wife has a fully working honda jazz and if that was the route we would probably just put up with the small space and keep it going till it dies.

joneve

TTony said:

MtB said:

Buy a main dealer ex-demo car. 

Never buy a main dealer ex-demo car

1. They're often over-specced with all the toys and extras possible, and even after the dealer has taken a depreciation hit, you'll still be paying for a load of toys that probably wouldn't have chosen to buy.
2. That's the worst possible way of running in a new car - lots of short journeys from cold and (depending on what it is) lots of high rev, clutch abusing, short journeys from cold.

But yes, they'll be polished to within an inch of their lives and will positively shine on the forecourt ...

If I didn't know any better, I'd say Tony was a car salesman.