My AX8 vs Helix LT Journey

Roland

@John_A I've got an AxeFX which you can come and play with. That will give the same sounds as an AX8, but won't show you the practicalities of configuring and using.

peteri

@FarleyUK thanks - very useful, going to try a spring reverb and see if I notice the difference!

John_A

Roland said:

@John_A I've got an AxeFX which you can come and play with. That will give the same sounds as an AX8, but won't show you the practicalities of configuring and using.

Very kind of you.  I'll check what time I have and drop you a PM

Clarky

peteri said:

@jonathanthomas83 - thanks that's good to know, hopefully it won't be too long!

It's hard to put my finger on - I'm a analogue/tape guy, those are the sounds I always use - I don't like pristine delays, more soft, warm delays that 'merge' into the sound.

With the Helix, I found that the delays did this really well - you can have long delay times with lots of repeats, but they don't stand out and instead sit a little behind the dry sound and compliment it.

On the AX8, I got there - and I'm broadly happy, but it took a lot more tweaking, all too easy for the wet sound to become too dominant and forward in the mix and it took more fiddling.

To my ears the decay on the repeats just isn't quite there. I'm being incredibly picky - but there has to be something I criticise, and to be honest I've got there now and I'm happy - just took more work than anything else.

I'm guessing the AX8 delay settings are the same as the Axe-II
try this in the delay block
Tone/Duck page: Drive: set this to 5 or higher to distort / degrade the delay tails
EQ page: use the High Cut and Low Cut to lo-fi the delay tails. don't be afraid to set the Low higher than 150 and the High lower than 1800..

peteri

cool - thanks will do!

FarleyUK

Just ordered a Moog expression pedal to allow me to mix all FX levels with it manually while playing... so now I've got one for the wah, one for advanced whammy and one for mix level

peteri

Thanks @Clarky that worked a treat, both settings I wouldn't have gone near (in terms of their strength) - but success! Merges the delays in significantly better.

John_A

Clarky said:

I'm guessing the AX8 delay settings are the same as the Axe-II
try this in the delay block
Tone/Duck page: Drive: set this to 5 or higher to distort / degrade the delay tails
EQ page: use the High Cut and Low Cut to lo-fi the delay tails. don't be afraid to set the Low higher than 150 and the High lower than 1800..

It seems that although I find a lot of things said about the AX8 appealing there are also things I'd miss about the simplicity of the Helix

FarleyUK

Anyone have a good acoustic sim patch on the AX8....?

Clarky

peteri said:

Thanks @Clarky that worked a treat, both settings I wouldn't have gone near (in terms of their strength) - but success! Merges the delays in significantly better.

the objective is to essentially destroy the delay tail such that it only resembles the source audio rather than being an exact copy of it..
this is why old analogue and tape delays were awesome and early digital ones stank
if the delay tail is too similar to the source you cannot get away with high wet signal levels without turning everything into a cluttered mess..
by lo-fi'ing the tails you're making them different enough to enable high wet levels whilst maintaining the distinctness of the source audio..
and this happens with real sound too in huge spaces [caverns etc]..
the reflection is never quite the same as the sound wave that hits the surface it bounces off

Clarky

John_A said:

Clarky said:

I'm guessing the AX8 delay settings are the same as the Axe-II
try this in the delay block
Tone/Duck page: Drive: set this to 5 or higher to distort / degrade the delay tails
EQ page: use the High Cut and Low Cut to lo-fi the delay tails. don't be afraid to set the Low higher than 150 and the High lower than 1800..

It seems that although I find a lot of things said about the AX8 appealing there are also things I'd miss about the simplicity of the Helix

fx with fewer settings can give a quick appeal and be less fussy..
whereas fx with more settings take a little more effort..
however.. that little more effort is the difference between 'exactly' what you're after verses something that's 'ok' or a bit like it'..

I've always considered dumbed down kit to generally be for the impatient
it's often reasonable to pretty good, but lacks flexibility
the real magic is often rewarded by time and effort

Roland

FarleyUK said:

Anyone have a good acoustic sim patch on the AX8....?

I have a good acoustic sim patch on AxeFX. It goes:

The only thing you can't replicate in the Axe8 is the multi-band compressor, and you can get a similar result with Compressor and EQ. Working backwards:

CAB is key. I made an IR which matches my Tele neck pickup to my Taylor.
PEQ to take out any resonances.
GEQ to take out boom.
AMP is Studio Pre, with all controls set to default.

The IR is the key element. You can get somewhere close with other people's, but you really need to make your own. If you would like to try mine PM me an email and I'll send some.
 

Jonathanthomas83

Anyone else having trouble with the univibe on the Fractal? I'm doing something wrong because sometimes I tweak the controls and the effect is way too subtle for my liking. Almost to the point where I can hardly hear it.

peteri

What have you got the mix set to? I find somewhere between mid 30s and 50 works. Stray too far from that and you lose the effect 

Jonathanthomas83

@peteri ;100%! Do you mean stray as in either direction?

peteri

Hi - sorry house moving!

Yes - moving the mix outside of these ranges and you lose the effect

Pete

Jonathanthomas83

Thanks mate, I played with it again today and found the same. Really weird though, effect disappears past 60-70%, which is strange to me...100% would be pure vibe, surely!! Defo not as nice as my old vibe pedals, unfortunately.

peteri

I think that's because basically it's an implementation of the Phaser, and phaser's need the original in the signal?

I think it's ok to be honest, but agree there are better out there - conversely the phaser and trem I love and have sold pedals because of that

Jonathanthomas83

@peteri Did you replace your Flint? What settings do you use on reverb and trem? I loved my Flint and not quite got the same sounds out of the Fractal, maybe it’s placement too.

I agree, Phaser is awesome!

Freebird

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Thanks mate, I played with it again today and found the same. Really weird though, effect disappears past 60-70%, which is strange to me...100% would be pure vibe, surely!! Defo not as nice as my old vibe pedals, unfortunately.

Have a look at this .. https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/univibe-pedal.113277/