My AX8 vs Helix LT Journey

peteri

@Jonathanthomas83 - wis awarded! Thanks so much for those recommendations, it's funny I was aiming for the Suhr Riot when I found the shredmaster, just goes to show you should try them all.

I'll continue experimenting and documenting on here, there's certainly a long way to go yet - but I'm convinced enough to put the Helix up for sale.

That pedal board test last night just killed it for me, the speed to get sounds I like was mindblowing, I'm especially loving the chorus and trem sounds which are just 'right'.

Going to put it, with a King of Tone, expression pedal and stereo ditto (so used to an external looper where I can tweak the volume with my toe, I know I could do it with an expression pedal but I just like it!) on a Pedal train - just for tidiness.

I still think the Helix is a cracking bit of kit, and it's easy to forget that the LT I have was half the price of the AX8, at the end of the day I'm pretty sure no one would hear much of a difference with enough tweaking.

But the sounds feel more 'there' and more 'right' to me as a player with the AX8, which somehow means the limitations matter less

Things I found really useful last night:

The scene 1/2 toggle footswitch - wonderful! Saves a footswitch - wish they did it for all of them.

X/Y on pedals - I've been using that a while, but really nice to be able to quickly demo drive pedals side by side

Having the wah pedal turned on by moving the expression pedal - I hate toe switches when I'm sitting down playing!

Talking about the drive pedals - I would like to have the OCD model of the Helix in the AX8, that's a really good pedal. I think the TS models are very similar, but somehow they interact with amps slightly 'better' for me on the AX8, I think that's the frequency rolloff I commented on previously.

I was initially disappointed at the missing Klon, but I'm not really missing it to be honest - I'm using an optical compressor for a clean boost sometimes and that gets very close, and the FET drive is decent for a bit more gain.

One thing I'm not looking forward to on the AX8 is learning to edit via the interface, I'm sure it's not as bad as it looks - but it's a shame to be forced to read the manual! Just wasn't needed on the Helix or with AX8-Edit

Jonathanthomas83

@peteri wis'd for reminding me about the Riot, used to be one of my fave pedals, that. Forgot it was even modelled in the Axe FX. I'll use that tonight. 

Also, wis'd for reminding me to switch on 1/2 scene switch. Forgot to do that when I reprogrammed my MFC. Great idea indeed. 

I think there's an OCD in the Fractal isn't there?

peteri

Thank you! I love the scene 1/2 switch, makes a lot of sense.

Nope - no OCD, one day, one day...

guitarfishbay

Well it's not that difficult I'd imagine - since the AX8 has some dedicated amp controls on the front.

I've edited loads on my Axe FX 2, it involves pressing navigation buttons a lot to scroll but other than that it's pretty logical I thought.  Given I tend to like the default settings I don't find I tweak that much anyway, and when I do want to tweak the parameter is usually accessible since pretty much everything is tweakable.

Even Drew has come to the conclusion he can work his FX8 pretty quickly, after he's learned how to use it.

Jonathanthomas83

@guitarfishbay is Drew keeping it then? 

@peteri, sorry, I thought the 'Full OD' was the OCD. May get a bit of luck with the Tube Driver models, try changing the tube for a transistor of some kind if you can't get close.  

guitarfishbay

Well he's keeping it as far as I know, I think he's figured how to get most of the sounds he needs.  Now he's just going between the Helix and FX8 and likes both, don't think he's made a decision if he's going to sell one or not.

Jonathanthomas83

Good news! I'm pleased. He'll love the new BBD stuff, I think. It'll take a while to get to FX8 though, I guess.

StuartMac290

 Scene 1/2 switch? What is this please?

DavusPG

A switch that toggles between scenes 1 & 2 so rather than waste 2 footswitches with 1 for each you do it all on one.

Not sure how it works though if you toggle from 1 to 2, then say hit a switch for scene 3 and then come back to 1...or would it take you back to scene 2????

As you might have guessed i haven't used it!

Huge fan of control switches though, but that's another topic

Jonathanthomas83

I was thinking the same thing @DavusPG and what are control switches?

This thing though...this fuckin thing!!! Amazing. Keeps bringing a smile to my face everyday and nails absolutely everything I throw at it! Awesome piece of kit.

FarleyUK

Dammit. I'm on holiday for the first time in 7 years in Mexico, and I keep reading this thread and the manual, and the new quantum 8 release notes - all because my ax8 arrived the day before I flew!

Looking forward to getting home and trying it fully, and running it in stereo w/d/w with dual dxr10 speakers

peteri

Wow! Control switches, that's new to me - don't need them right now the way I have things set up, but good to know!

Out last night, but plan today is to look at the Ownhammer stuff I've bought - and also set up a more 'Blues' based bank - so something barely breaking up and tweedy and then maybe Marshall JTM or similar.

Also - final chance on the Helix, will crank things up and see if I can really hear/feel a difference

peteri

Good grief! The AX8 has surprised me again.

Took an hour to try the Helix in a cranked amp, and also tweak the AX some more.

Firstly - AX is definitely the one for me, the Helix sounds really, really good - but then I plugged in the AX and just so much more 'breadth' to the sound, deeper in the bottom (oh-er) but not flabby. Just more 3D to me.

Then I played with control switches (thanks for the hint, wis'd), wow! That's useful, makes for a great lead boost and compressor engage, so easy to do - and doesn't interfere with other ways of using the same effects, love it.

And then in under 30 minutes, put together two other pedal boards, which have absolutely blown me away - a 'blues' one, with low gain boosts, delays and rotary effects. And a 'Jimi' board, only board with an amp - fuzz into the SLP. Just Fat, very happy.

Plus modified my main board to have X/Y on the delay - so default is quite short, then quick switch to a lush long 'front pickup solo' sound.

And discovered one more gotcha - changed the global settings to be L+R summed, reverb sounds much more natural now - (idiot! expected it to sum automatically like the Helix).

This has been an amazing, and much shorter journey than I expected. I remain impressed with the Helix, the bang for the buck is amazing and without the AX8 edit it wouldn't be so clear cut.

But for sheer speed of getting great sounds, and the depth of the reverbs, mods and drives. Plus surprising versatility (ability to change what footswitches do per preset, X/Y and control switches) just kill it for me.

And it means I can sell my Flint and MXR Phase 95 which I was using with the Helix, so actually the price difference is slightly closed.

Beexter

DavusPG said:

A switch that toggles between scenes 1 & 2 so rather than waste 2 footswitches with 1 for each you do it all on one.

Not sure how it works though if you toggle from 1 to 2, then say hit a switch for scene 3 and then come back to 1...or would it take you back to scene 2????

As you might have guessed i haven't used it!

Huge fan of control switches though, but that's another topic

I have a patch set up using S1/2 toggle and S3. If I hit S3 and then go back to the S1/2 toggle, it always takes me back to S1 regardless of what I was in when I hit S3.
I seem to recall seeing something in the manual to do with scene "revert" so I'm sure (like with everything on the AX8) it's probably adjustable.

It is an incredible bit of kit and it's only my imagination that constrains me. I found that when I first started using it, I "thought" in a traditional "amp/ pedals " way. The AX8 is so much more than that and is capable of some truly amazing sounds. Absolutely love it.

I still have a couple of valve amps and some pedals but I find them so much more limited in terms of what they are capable of. 

Clarky

peteri said:

Good grief! The AX8 has surprised me again.

Took an hour to try the Helix in a cranked amp, and also tweak the AX some more.

Firstly - AX is definitely the one for me, the Helix sounds really, really good - but then I plugged in the AX and just so much more 'breadth' to the sound, deeper in the bottom (oh-er) but not flabby. Just more 3D to me.

Then I played with control switches (thanks for the hint, wis'd), wow! That's useful, makes for a great lead boost and compressor engage, so easy to do - and doesn't interfere with other ways of using the same effects, love it.

And then in under 30 minutes, put together two other pedal boards, which have absolutely blown me away - a 'blues' one, with low gain boosts, delays and rotary effects. And a 'Jimi' board, only board with an amp - fuzz into the SLP. Just Fat, very happy.

Plus modified my main board to have X/Y on the delay - so default is quite short, then quick switch to a lush long 'front pickup solo' sound.

And discovered one more gotcha - changed the global settings to be L+R summed, reverb sounds much more natural now - (idiot! expected it to sum automatically like the Helix).

This has been an amazing, and much shorter journey than I expected. I remain impressed with the Helix, the bang for the buck is amazing and without the AX8 edit it wouldn't be so clear cut.

But for sheer speed of getting great sounds, and the depth of the reverbs, mods and drives. Plus surprising versatility (ability to change what footswitches do per preset, X/Y and control switches) just kill it for me.

And it means I can sell my Flint and MXR Phase 95 which I was using with the Helix, so actually the price difference is slightly closed.

so how long will if be before you go for the full-fat version.. lol..
cos the Axe-FX II s a whole different beast again

DavusPG

Great to know I'm not the only one blown away by the AX8....I've no doubt the Helix is just as good, it was just that I had an FX8 first so the switch to the AX8 was a logical step....One came up on here and that was that.

Hands down the biggest GAS killing purchase for me to date (as the Helix would be too I'm sure) and in a blind test I'd struggle to tell the difference between the models and the real thing....in a packed pub playing in a band, absolutely no chance!

Control switches are good as you say for adding several things at once. What you might not have discovered it that there is also a control switch tab in the controllers page where you can assign whether control switches are activated or not on a scene by scene basis. If you also assign a control switch to a footswitch you can then turn these on and off on the fly too. On some of my presets I have the control switch as a momentary switch for leads fills etc. So step on for volume & amp boost, step off when I'm done

You can also use it to modify levels and sizes of reverbs, delays etc.

Sounds like you're figuring all this out super quick anyway....

Would be curious to see the presets you're putting together.

peteri

Thanks - that's interesting to know.

My presets are very vanilla, pub rock sort of stuff to be honest - but I like them!

Amazed how much I'm getting out of the Shredmaster - it's great, who'd have thought?

@Clarky - the extra amp blocks on the full fat intrigue me, but I love the floor unit -it's just easier for the (for now) home player/rehearsal space. Never say never though!

guitarfishbay

I think the only major thing you gain is two amp blocks in a patch, and more total CPU to run more simultaneous effects. 

You do gain a bunch of other control stuff too, which @Clarky ;;
could tell you more about than me, but if you're doing just straightforward rock sounds it might not end up mattering to you.  If the AX8 is ticking the boxes then stick with it!

Did you manage to have a go on the Ownhammer IRs yet?

peteri

Not yet. Got diverted by the joy of the pedals!

at home again on Friday will have a play then 

Clarky

guitarfishbay said:

I think the only major thing you gain is two amp blocks in a patch, and more total CPU to run more simultaneous effects. 

You do gain a bunch of other control stuff too, which @Clarky ;;
could tell you more about than me, but if you're doing just straightforward rock sounds it might not end up mattering to you.  If the AX8 is ticking the boxes then stick with it!

Did you manage to have a go on the Ownhammer IRs yet?

also, the Axe-FX II can take more XP's and XS's
and like you say, it's far more configurable from the controller standpoint..

being able to run 2 amp blocks at a time is a big deal for huge rock / metal riffing tones..
also you can have more tonal variety in a single preset.. 

and of course, the extra CPU means you can have more of everything..
this gives the scenes feature even great breadth..
and means that you are less likely to have to change preset mid-song