My AX8 vs Helix LT Journey

cbellanga

Beexter said:

cbellanga said:

Beexter said:

cbellanga said:

not sure if it helps but I got one of those Digitech FX3 very cheap on eBay and modded it .. another 3 foot-switches that can be programmed by patch... very handy for IAs

@cbellanga ;  I'm intrigued and have an FX3 kicking about - could you share a bit more info on how you modded it and what you can do with it?

Pretty easy.. 3 carling momentary foot-switches soldered to one of these trrs and one of those audio / video RCA cables (red, white and yellow). Just replaced the RCA plugs with mono 1/4” ones and job done! Will take a pic from inside the pedal later today.

I getcha, so you're effectively using it as 3 momentary switches with your expression pedal into the remaining switch input on the back of the AX8?

Exactly.. saw the old and never used RCA cable lying around and thought why not

guitarfishbay

gearaddict said:

Clarky said:

Cab block: 4x12 TV mix #2 / Mic=none

Mic=none? Interesting...I'd have thought you would need a mic for this to make sense...why no mic? I don't think you can do that on the Helix, can you?

It works differently to the Helix.

The Helix has two options for cabs - IRs, and the cab block (or whatever it is called).

The Fractal gear doesn't have an equivalent to the cab block - it only does IRs.  You can overlay a mic model on top of an IR if you want.  I don't use that feature and I think for the most part people only use it to experiment rather than using it as a primary feature when setting up a tone

Roland

guitarfishbay said:

The Fractal gear doesn't have an equivalent to the cab block - it only does IRs.  You can overlay a mic model on top of an IR if you want.  I don't use that feature and I think for the most part people only use it to experiment rather than using it as a primary feature when setting up a tone

I've used mic=null, which allows you to simulate proximity effects of close micing without introducing mic EQ.

guitarfishbay

Do you ever use the preamp/EQ section in the cab block? I've not used it in ages, I apply my IRs in a DAW so use other things, and still use a poweramp and cab with my band 

peteri

Neighbours out and at home, so absolutely cranked the amp (very loud!)

King of Tone straight into amp, using amp (Carr) reverb.

Sounded amazing.

Plugged in the AX8, just reverb and drive

Sounded better

Shit!

Jonathanthomas83

Never one for knee jerk reactions (I am), but sell the amp! ;-)

Jonathanthomas83

Sound Clarky said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

@clarky what’s your typical rock preset for tight rhythm and lead?

all of my presets are variations of the same preset
so the fundamentals are that same..
the variants just have differences [fx / morphing tones / settings] to address moments in specific songs that that main preset cannot..

riffing: 5150 mkIII red channel left / Diezel Herbert channel 3 right
soloing: 5150 mkIII red channel
clean: Carol Ann Tucana 3 clean channel

sounds like the same principle as me, different presets just variations of the same theme.

Ive never had luck with the 5150, need to revisit. What kind of gain range we talking and what’s your cabs?

guitarfishbay

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Sound Clarky said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

@clarky what’s your typical rock preset for tight rhythm and lead?

all of my presets are variations of the same preset
so the fundamentals are that same..
the variants just have differences [fx / morphing tones / settings] to address moments in specific songs that that main preset cannot..

riffing: 5150 mkIII red channel left / Diezel Herbert channel 3 right
soloing: 5150 mkIII red channel
clean: Carol Ann Tucana 3 clean channel

sounds like the same principle as me, different presets just variations of the same theme.

Ive never had luck with the 5150, need to revisit. What kind of gain range we talking and what’s your cabs?

I think Clarky sets his gain on 11.

Off the top of my head I don't think I get any of the lead channels over about 4ish, but it really depends on your pickups and playing style at the end of the day. 

I don't have as much luck with the 5150 III as I do with the 6505 (6160) models.  I prefer the slightly rawer tone of the Peavey type models in the Axe.

There's also a FAS 6160 model that's worth a look, think it's Cliff's own modded version.  I've not tried that in a long time, I tend to stick with the Peavey versions as they work for me.  I do like the rhythm bright 6505+ model a lot.  I use it more than the leads actually.

Jonathanthomas83

guitarfishbay said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Sound Clarky said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

@clarky what’s your typical rock preset for tight rhythm and lead?

all of my presets are variations of the same preset
so the fundamentals are that same..
the variants just have differences [fx / morphing tones / settings] to address moments in specific songs that that main preset cannot..

riffing: 5150 mkIII red channel left / Diezel Herbert channel 3 right
soloing: 5150 mkIII red channel
clean: Carol Ann Tucana 3 clean channel

sounds like the same principle as me, different presets just variations of the same theme.

Ive never had luck with the 5150, need to revisit. What kind of gain range we talking and what’s your cabs?

I think Clarky sets his gain on 11.

Off the top of my head I don't think I get any of the lead channels over about 4ish, but it really depends on your pickups and playing style at the end of the day. 

I don't have as much luck with the 5150 III as I do with the 6505 (6160) models.  I prefer the slightly rawer tone of the Peavey type models in the Axe.

There's also a FAS 6160 model that's worth a look, think it's Cliff's own modded version.  I've not tried that in a long time, I tend to stick with the Peavey versions as they work for me.  I do like the rhythm bright 6505+ model a lot.  I use it more than the leads actually.

Thank you, mate. Went through a bunch yesterday and just seem to get on better with the Marshall models and Mesa stuff more than anything else, but I guess that's just what I'm into.

Couldn't get the Diezel to do what I wanted it to...my old Diezel CH4 pedal was incredible for lead work but couldn't get the Axe FX to do that the way I remembered.  

I got better luck with the Friedman Dirty Shirley than with any of the BE100 models. The Engl is just insane!! Keep coming back to a JCM800 and Dual Rec. Nice to explore sometimes though.

Given the high praise recently, I'll have a go of the Suhr, see how I get on with that in comparison to the SLP - which I bloody love to bits.

simonk

peteri said:

simonk said:

Have you tried the Suhr Badger 30? Best clean sound in there I think.

Thank you - I have and along with the Clarky JCM idea, has given me a great new patch.

Clean is the Suhr Badger into a 4x12 - just wonderful and clean but not too clean. Then gain up to 85% and the master cranked and it's a better AC/DC sound than the plexi.

Then over to the JCM800 for rock and lead.

Suhr is so dynamic, it's a joy

Fancy sharing your patch? I'd love to give it a try...

peteri

Sure - I'll likely think it's shite tomorrow but glad to.

PM me your email and I'll try and do it over the weekend

Clarky

peteri said:

Clarky said:

the 5153Red is a beautiful silky smooth hi-gain amp..
you can jack up the 5153Blue to similar amounts of gain but it's a little more 'edge' and aggressive sounding [to my ear]

try this with a JCM800
filter block set null / Lowcut=700 / Highcut=880
amp block:
Basic page: Brit 800 / drive=6 / Bass=3 / Mid=7 / Treble=6 / Presence=6 / Boost=On / Bright Switch=On
GEQ page: left to right: 2 / 1.75 / 0 / -3 / 2 / 3 / 3 / 0
Power Amp page: MV Location=Post-PI

Cab block: 4x12 TV mix #2 / Mic=none
Pre + Drv page: Motor Drive=3

I absolutely adore this hot-rodded JCM.. it's so much fun
if you want more gain, go to the filter block and set the level to 10 or even 15 to really cook the preamp..

add a nice mono analog delay and fat reverb to taste..

Instant 1978 Van Halen

Got chance to try this today.

Wow! You're right absolutely spot on - and has made the basis for changing my headphones patch. Made it a little less VH by increasing the bottom end a little.

Thank you so much - wow!

aaaa... glad to be of service....
I love that amp modded that why..
it's pure joy

Clarky

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Sound Clarky said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

@clarky what’s your typical rock preset for tight rhythm and lead?

all of my presets are variations of the same preset
so the fundamentals are that same..
the variants just have differences [fx / morphing tones / settings] to address moments in specific songs that that main preset cannot..

riffing: 5150 mkIII red channel left / Diezel Herbert channel 3 right
soloing: 5150 mkIII red channel
clean: Carol Ann Tucana 3 clean channel

sounds like the same principle as me, different presets just variations of the same theme.

Ive never had luck with the 5150, need to revisit. What kind of gain range we talking and what’s your cabs?

I use a stereo cab, the 4x12 TV mix left side and the 4x12 AX mix right
High cut = 8000 on both

Clarky

gearaddict said:

Clarky said:

Cab block: 4x12 TV mix #2 / Mic=none

Mic=none? Interesting...I'd have thought you would need a mic for this to make sense...why no mic? I don't think you can do that on the Helix, can you?

the clue is in the name "mix"
this is a cab with multiple mic's that have been blended and the IR re-shot of the result
so.. you'd not run a mic'd cab, or a mix of a cab through another mic
so you set mic=none

you can do this sort of thing yourself with CabLab
basically load up to 8 IR's, mix them, make a fresh cab IR from the result and then load it into the Axe

DefaultM

Sorry if this has already been answered, but I don't understand the point of the AX8.
I've got an axe fx 2 that I use at home for recording, and i used to use it live with a real cab and power amp, plus the mfc101.
Are you supposed to use it in that set up, and it just avoids having to bring a separate foot controller/its cut down on features so cheaper?

guitarfishbay

DefaultM said:

Sorry if this has already been answered, but I don't understand the point of the AX8.
I've got an axe fx 2 that I use at home for recording, and i used to use it live with a real cab and power amp, plus the mfc101.
Are you supposed to use it in that set up, and it just avoids having to bring a separate foot controller/its cut down on features so cheaper?

It's basically a cheaper and less powerful Axe FX 2 in a floorboard format with some dedicated amp controls on the hardware to make tweaking easier.

The Axe FX 2 is still the flagship unit, but there's a huge price difference between a new MFC and Axe FX 2 rig vs the AX8. 

AX8 - 1499

Axe FX 2 XL+ - 2599
MFC 101 mk3 - 799

(all euros)

Jonathanthomas83

When you say it out loud, that is ridiculous isn’t it!

That said, I paid nowhere near that, but if I had, the unit itself has likely saved me spending close to that in flipping pedals and amps and stuff. Don’t like that sound? Move on to one of the other hundred or so amps in there.

Roland

Then you think about the unobtainable amps that you've tried, e.g. The Dumbles

guitarfishbay

I didn't buy an MFC (went for a Behringer) and sold a load of amp/cab/pedal gear, also price was lower a few years ago... couple of years later still think it's the best value thing I've ever bought.

If the B7K model is good enough I'll sell my B7KU too

guitarfishbay

I do wish they'd to an MFC with the layout of the AX8 (for cheaper than the MFC). Don't think they will though