Are real guitar shops the future

Legionreturns

Anyone coming to the northern jam in January should definitely take the time to have a look around the local independent, Keith Dawson music. Nothing to do with the Dawson's chain and a right Aladins cave. Some hidden gems in there and his prices are pretty realistic, especially on used stuff. 

https://www.keithdawsonmusic.com

rico

@prowla good point re parking at Guitar Village and Andertons but in each case there is a Waitrose with ample parking a maximum of five minutes walk from each place. 

fandango

Trying out guitars reminds me of an experience in Epsom Surrey, very soon after an Alfa Romeo dealer opened up (it's disappeared now) and I went to test drive a new 159(?) back in the day. The test route was a five minute trip over speed humps. Couldn't do more than 20 mph. Oh, and the humps. I told them there and then that if they didn't sort out a better test route they might as well pack up, since no-one's going to buy a car based on a 5 minute slow rollercoaster. Salesman said it was something to do with insurance. Never went back.

darthed1981

Bridgehouse said:

Maybe this is just a generational thing then

I think it is also a "what are you buying and how do you perceive it" thing.  High-end shops love to sell "experiences" rather than products, because an "experience" is something you need the shop for, and as much as they think they can do it with VR, online stores can't really hope to replicate it.

So if you have 3k in the bank (or on the credit card) and want to go buy a custom shop or high end guitar, various specialist shops will go out of their way to provide you with a great purchasing "experience".  This may involve playing every guitar in the shop, but if you walk out with a custom shop guitar, it is well worth the store's while to do.  There is a mutual benefit and the cost of making you a coffee or you taking up the store space all afternoon is minimal compared to the money they will make.

However, the justification when you are buying a Squier or Epiphone is somewhat more dubious.  There is no way any but the most well-heeled beginner is going to buy a high-end guitar straight off, and even buying a Mexican fender or a high-end Epi is a dubious choice for someone who doesn't know if they are going to enjoy playing yet.

So how does the store compete there?  Probably the best solution is a layout like PMT in Northampton, where the beginner kit sits nearer the front, and you can grab a Squier and an ID core for a couple of hundred quid, job done.  They don't need to provide anything but a small amount of space so they just take the turnover.

At the back sit racks of the more expensive gear, from £350 up to about £3000.

It is more difficult with less space though.  Perhaps the future may lie in smaller stores where you can get your custom "experience", and a kind redirection to the internet for beginners gear.

Or maybe shops have it right at the minute?  Lee Anderton makes no doubt an excellent income out of his massive warehouse of guitars but the average shop owner can often hope at best to make a living and run their shop as a labour of love.  They cater for two completely different markets, so where is the harm?

prowla

fandango said:

Trying out guitars reminds me of an experience in Epsom Surrey, very soon after an Alfa Romeo dealer opened up (it's disappeared now) and I went to test drive a new 159(?) back in the day. The test route was a five minute trip over speed humps. Couldn't do more than 20 mph. Oh, and the humps. I told them there and then that if they didn't sort out a better test route they might as well pack up, since no-one's going to buy a car based on a 5 minute slow rollercoaster. Salesman said it was something to do with insurance. Never went back.

I went to the Lotus dealer at West Horsley, not far from Epsom, a couple of years ago and told them I was looking to buy a used one; most of the people were out at an event, so the person took my details but they never called me back. I dropped in a couple of months back to see if they had a part I wanted for the one that I did buy (elsewhere) and they were right miserable sods and I'm glad I didn't buy from them!

Actually, I had that with a BMW dealer too - I went to two Sytner ones (Sunningdale and Maidenhead) but one didn't really have anything on offer and the other didn't seem to think I was serious about buying so they took my details but didn't call back. I went and bought one (new) elsewhere, though I did have them do a spot of work on it during the Summer.

I guess some shops just aren't bothered about having customers.

prowla

rico said:

@prowla good point re parking at Guitar Village and Andertons but in each case there is a Waitrose with ample parking a maximum of five minutes walk from each place. 

Is it OK to park in Waitrose (and does it cost)?

Legionreturns

prowla said:

rico said:

@prowla good point re parking at Guitar Village and Andertons but in each case there is a Waitrose with ample parking a maximum of five minutes walk from each place. 

Is it OK to park in Waitrose (and does it cost)?

There now follows a Public Information Service announcement: 

For those of you who live in the north/ Southend / Hull / somewhere a bit shit, Waitrose is a slightly less shit version of Sainsbury. They'd put security on the door to keep the riff raff out, but they don't need to as the prices put them off anyway, and Cash Converters don't buy anything with "organically gender neutral super posh" labels on, so there's no point nicking stuff.

End announcement. We hope this has cleared up any ambiguity. (Those of you from Hull: Ambiguity means ...actually fuck it, you stopped reading when you got distracted by the mention of Cash Converters)

jonnyburgo

One has opened in my town, really nice people the bloke is pretty old so must know his stuff, they sell mostly budget stuff, revelation etc but also have some nice second hand gear from the biggies. I bought a slide recently, really hope they can make it work.

Mooster

If I can add a contrarian point of view, I have bought loads of gear from Coda Music, Peach Guitars, and Guitar Village. Trying to get any discount from them is tough. My latest acquisition was done via a box shifter super store, and primarily because I negotiated just over 30% off. I know that I will not be able to get those kind of savings from the above mentioned guitar stores, and I love going to Coda in particular, but in the end I made a big saving versus buying that guitar at a similar list price in those stores.

And for those who say: "But you won't be able to try it before you buy it." Distance selling laws means that I can try it at home and if I don't like it, I can return it back, no quibbles.

mrleon83

I had a great experience on Sunday going into Rock Hard Music in Wolverton, proper good old school mentality, decent people in their with great product knowledge, and I'm still pondering the PRS Satin Vela I tried out... there's always room for decent bricks n mortar shops .. but it must be tough..

My childhood was spent wandering round Musical Exchanges in Birmingham (well when my dad took me) and that was still my favorite store - loads of used stuff, unusual stuff..

I guess I feel it would be great if their was more stores with a large 2nd hand variety with chances to part ex... 

ICBM

prowla said:

The problem with high streets is that the councils seem to treat them as a cash-cow, charging excessive amounts for parking for you to have the privilege of spending your money with them, so out of town ones are a better option for that.

It would be brilliant if councils reversed this. I can't see it happening though, because the big businesses that own the out-of-town retail parks would raise hell.

Legionreturns

ICBM said:

prowla said:

The problem with high streets is that the councils seem to treat them as a cash-cow, charging excessive amounts for parking for you to have the privilege of spending your money with them, so out of town ones are a better option for that.

It would be brilliant if councils reversed this. I can't see it happening though, because the big businesses that own the out-of-town retail parks would raise hell.

One or two councils are now starting to do that with disk parking. Seems like a sensible solution. If you have a disk you can park for free for a few hours. 

Northumberland council have now abolished all car park charges for the whole county and replaced with either free or disk car parking. Hexham is now a much easier place to go. 

Newcastle has "alive after 5" free parking too and that's good for late night shopping or socialising. There are bigger issues than just shops not getting the footfall though...reclaiming town centres from drunk idiots after 5pm is a problem that needs addressing.

Guitarse

Nothing beats the smell of a music shop - the odour of new gear is GAStastic. 

guitars4you

ICBM said:

prowla said:

The problem with high streets is that the councils seem to treat them as a cash-cow, charging excessive amounts for parking for you to have the privilege of spending your money with them, so out of town ones are a better option for that.

It would be brilliant if councils reversed this. I can't see it happening though, because the big businesses that own the out-of-town retail parks would raise hell.

are you suggesting that large corporations have major influence upon local councils as well as national governments !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I do agree that you see certain towns adopt a free parking period on say Sundays and such towns are busy - Skipton and Litchfield (think a £1 to park all day Sunday) I know these are 2 good examples and the streets are busy - But equally I know in my town the wardens effectively go searching for the business - In Ashbourne you can park at a council car park on a Sunday FOC 'till 11am - By the leisure centre - I've seen wardens in there at 10.55 waiting to see who they can potentially book at 11.01

@Legionreturns - Harrogate and Penrith are 2 examples I know that have run disc parking for many many years - 2 hours free on a disc left in the window - disc available foc from most/many stores on the high street

pintspiller

Yes. 

Dave_Mc

Bridgehouse said:

Maybe this is just a generational thing then

I dunno about that. After I went offline last night it hit me that Royal Mail used to have multiple posts per day, not just once a day. So I guess wanting stuff to be delivered "NOW", as you said in your first post, isn't a new thing at all. In fact, it's actually worse now than it was.

rico said:

@prowla good point re parking at Guitar Village and Andertons but in each case there is a Waitrose with ample parking a maximum of five minutes walk from each place. 

Not much use if you're buying something big and heavy, surely? That's a problem I find with them too- I've often bought elsewhere because I was buying something big and couldn't get parked next to the shop.

Plus I doubt waitrose is too happy

Mooster said:

If I can add a contrarian point of view, I have bought loads of gear from Coda Music, Peach Guitars, and Guitar Village. Trying to get any discount from them is tough. My latest acquisition was done via a box shifter super store, and primarily because I negotiated just over 30% off. I know that I will not be able to get those kind of savings from the above mentioned guitar stores, and I love going to Coda in particular, but in the end I made a big saving versus buying that guitar at a similar list price in those stores.

And for those who say: "But you won't be able to try it before you buy it." Distance selling laws means that I can try it at home and if I don't like it, I can return it back, no quibbles.

Yeah. As I said above, a small premium is one thing, but expecting people to pay 30% more (especially on a big ticket item where that can easily be several hundred quid) is unrealistic.

Plus, some people don't like that "big purchase experience". I embarrass easily, and I don't really want to feel like they're bending over backwards for me or nearly closing the whole shop for me. That puts a whole extra level of pressure on me, lol.

rico

prowla said:

rico said:

@prowla good point re parking at Guitar Village and Andertons but in each case there is a Waitrose with ample parking a maximum of five minutes walk from each place. 

Is it OK to park in Waitrose (and does it cost)?

Absolutely. I think it's around 90p per hour in Farnham. Can't remember Guildford. If you spend more than £20 your parking is free at Waitrose so you could offer to do the weekly shop in return for splurging on an object of GAS. 

Big brownie points with the Mrs!

prowla

The last time I went to Guitar Village someone came to pick up a nice Martin which he'd had them put a strap button on; he was furious, because they'd drilled a hole and put it in the wrong place!

bloodandtears

4114Effects said:

We've had a few music shops come and go in Halifax. All at which stocked a bizzare and limited range of instruments and acessories. 

Thankfully the latest One - Guitarzone - has taken the sensible approach of being a guitar shop and a decent coffee shop all in one. 

I've lost count of the amount of times I've been waiting for a bus and nipped for a coffee there. Then thought "whilst I'm here I'll get some strings or plectrums."

They also stock some interesting items and aren't afraid to try something different. For example they stock Sfarzo strings and were the first stockist to have Cole Clark acoustics in the UK.

Things like this are the only way i see guitar shops being able to survive nowadays, nobody can compete with the box shifters on price. 

The owner of GuitarZone, Chris, is an old friend of mine, great bloke.. I'm regularly surprised by his stock decisions but he's still at it while others fail.

My local store is Reidy's, the largest guitar wall!!! Good stock but shame you can't just grab a guitar of the wall because you need staff to get the ladders!!!  Rimmers doesn't count anymore, I recently watched a staff member try to sell a stereo jack lead as a guitar lead... (facepalm).. It used to be so much better.

underdog

As someone mentioned guitar shops need to branch out a bit, offer more things to more people. Still today when I walk into guitar shops they're exactly like they were when I was a teen. The good guitars put out of reach, staff noodling away and being intimidating, they are usually uninviting to all but the most self confident player.

A big property with a guitar shop and complimentary other businesses in it makes sense. A coffee shop, cafe, clothes etc all fitting with the general clientele of a guitar shop. 

A space to offer learners somewhere to try equipment out of site/ear shot, maybe the same space can be used to give lessons, classes on effects etc. They could go and make the whole experience a social event for people. Then people will pay the premium.