The Ashes Winter 2017/18 Thread

Legionreturns

Teetonetal said:

200 for cook! Dropped twice by smith, so that's been costly.

I've been watching all night! I figured I wouldn't get too many good days and I've no school until the 8th now so why not! 

I picked the right night! Brilliant batting. I was lucky enough to be at Chester le Street to see Cook score his 10000th run, it's amazing to think he's got another 2000 since then and is chasing down Lara in the highest test run scorers list. He'll pass him too. 

Legionreturns

Done! Beautiful cover drive to pass Lara! 

Teetonetal

Really only cook holding his hand up out of the batsman and he got lucky twice. I think this is England's current problem - they ride their luck too much and it's rarely a sustained collective effort across tests. Still nice to see Cook getting some form together, He has been splendid overall in his career.

VimFuego

Teetonetal said:

Really only cook holding his hand up out of the batsman and he got lucky twice. I think this is England's current problem - they ride their luck too much and it's rarely a sustained collective effort across tests. Still nice to see Cook getting some form together, He has been splendid overall in his career.

on the flip side of that, there were 2 batsmen out LBW who should've reviewed, I'm guessing that there may be team orders not to waste reviews, but batsmen need to be given the confidence to make a mistake, to get something wrong.

RandallFlagg

I read that that Cook has never carried his bat through a whole innings before out of 273 Test innings! He's close...

I know the Ashes are lost and it's frustrating to see the boys find form too late but England playing well makes me feel good and I always hope they win.

guitars4you

Not sure there will be enough time left for a win, but will take a winning draw with a stronger performance like this - stay strong now and stay in control - but a win will be a great bonus

crunchman

Stayed up until England had a lead.  Think Cook was on 168 when I went to bed.

What on earth was Moeen doing?  He looks like his head has gone.  If Mason Crane isn't ready then Adil Rashid looks a better short term option.  Moeen might be ok as the second spinner on a tour of the sub-continent.

Dopesick

Think this innings just saved Cook's skin. Pretty damn difficult to drop him after making (nearly) 250 at the MCG.

Get the Aussies out for anything lower than 300 and we could very well win the match.

VimFuego

you watch, in the middle of a longest heatwave in australian history* they'll now get 2 days of solid rain.




*may not actually be true.

Dopesick

70 for 2!

Now watch Smith get another hundred.

guitars4you

so pretty much certain a draw now - we need some inspiration for 8 quick wickets before tea and a chase of less than 100 - maybe !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Heartfeltdawn

crunchman said:

Heartfeltdawn said: 

If people were lining up to replace Broad, then the argument is stronger but we don't have anyone.

Don't think that is true.  Woakes and Craig Overton both have better records than him in this series - and they haven't had the benefit of using the new ball.  Woakes had a much better record when they played together in 2016.  Woakes and Overton are both better batsmen, and probably better fielders as well.  If you are going to drop someone when Stokes comes back then on current form it has to be Broad.

Ok Broad was unlucky with dropped catches in the summer, but he's just been rubbish this winter.  Watching him trundle in and bowl at 78mph the other day was depressing.  I said above, he's just lost his zip.  He's like Gillespie in 2005 - who was younger than Broad is now.

You also need to think about the future.  If you keep Broad in the team now, then him and Anderson will probably both go at the same time in a year or two and you will have two very inexperienced opening bowlers at the same time.  Drop Broad now and keep Anderson while he's still playing well, and blood another opening bowler.  At least they have a chance to get some experience before the next home Ashes.

Yes it is true Craig Overton has potential to be a replacement but he's not there yet (and I say that as a Somerset supporter). Opening bowler, he is not right now. Woakes has a fab record at home but his away record on the current Cricinfo stats is 11 Tests, 18 wickets at over 50 with an SR over 100. That's not Broad displacement material and not attack leader material. 

With Jake Ball not looking good enough, Mark Wood in and out, Footitt seemingly frozen out, Jamies Porter and Overton coming back from injury, there's a paucity of opening bowlers out there to choose from who might be able to cope with non-English conditions. 

Heartfeltdawn

Dopesick said:

Think this innings just saved Cook's skin. Pretty damn difficult to drop him after making (nearly) 250 at the MCG.

Get the Aussies out for anything lower than 300 and we could very well win the match.

I doubt he would have been dropped. Whenever England lose a series, there is talk of executions and it's mostly nonsensical. 

earwighoney

Heartfeltdawn said:

Yes it is true Craig Overton has potential to be a replacement but he's not there yet (and I say that as a Somerset supporter). Opening bowler, he is not right now. 

I voiced my doubts regarding Craig Overton prior to the series regarding his pace and I'm pleased to be wrong as I think he's been excellent this series.  In the second test first innings in particular, Anderson and Broad lost their line far too often and I was impressed with Overton keeping a better line and length when others around him seemed to not be at their best.  I've been impressed with his and Tom Curran's attitudes this series, seems like a long time ago Jake Ball was selected for the first test.  

IMO, Sam Curran looks a prospect as a new ball bowler for English conditions anyway - he swings the new ball both ways and is left handed, but there's no way he's ready in the slightest. 

Toby Roland-Jones had a good summer here but got injured at a vital time.  I still think he has a part play in test matches at some point and hopefully Stokes can return sooner than later.  His pace has been greatly missed by our bowling line up 

Heartfeltdawn

earwighoney said:

I voiced my doubts regarding Craig Overton prior to the series regarding his pace and I'm pleased to be wrong as I think he's been excellent this series.  In the second test first innings in particular, Anderson and Broad lost their line far too often and I was impressed with Overton keeping a better line and length when others around him seemed to not be at their best.  I've been impressed with his and Tom Curran's attitudes this series, seems like a long time ago Jake Ball was selected for the first test.  

IMO, Sam Curran looks a prospect as a new ball bowler for English conditions anyway - he swings the new ball both ways and is left handed, but there's no way he's ready in the slightest. 

Toby Roland-Jones had a good summer here but got injured at a vital time.  I still think he has a part play in test matches at some point and hopefully Stokes can return sooner than later.  His pace has been greatly missed by our bowling line up 

Ball won't be a fixture for England for some time as he's not really done anything since his five-for on ODI debut. Sam Curran will get a chance at ODI level first as he and David Willey are fairly interchangeable in terms of batting and bowling. TRJ will be back but he's still a first changer and not an attack leader. Stokes as a bowler... it's intriguing really. Stokes with the ball is a curious one as he wasn't used particularly well as a bowler. In the last year, he has been and I think he suits the drier environments conducive to reverse swing far more than the lush green ones. 

It's interesting that you mention how Curran and Overton kept their line and length well. Both have decent surfaces for batting at their home county venues (Taunton and the Oval) with Taunton especially being small and a fast scoring ground. The need for good wickets works for both disciplines. A batsman can't develop the ability to focus for long periods of time if they play on dodgy tracks where shit piechuckers get wickets (as seen in the Windies FC tournaments). Equally a vital part of bowling is learning how to bowl long spells on good tracks. 

If we look at the Moores era versus Bayliss, one of the shitty elements has been the poor development of our bowlers. We don't seem to have an overall plan for anyone outside of Anderson and Broad and the handling of the slow bowling department has been risible. 

earwighoney

Heartfeltdawn said:

 Ball won't be a fixture for England for some time as he's not really done anything since his five-for on ODI debut. Sam Curran will get a chance at ODI level first as he and David Willey are fairly interchangeable in terms of batting and bowling. TRJ will be back but he's still a first changer and not an attack leader. Stokes as a bowler... it's intriguing really. Stokes with the ball is a curious one as he wasn't used particularly well as a bowler. In the last year, he has been and I think he suits the drier environments conducive to reverse swing far more than the lush green ones. 

It's interesting that you mention how Curran and Overton kept their line and length well. Both have decent surfaces for batting at their home county venues (Taunton and the Oval) with Taunton especially being small and a fast scoring ground. The need for good wickets works for both disciplines. A batsman can't develop the ability to focus for long periods of time if they play on dodgy tracks where shit piechuckers get wickets (as seen in the Windies FC tournaments). Equally a vital part of bowling is learning how to bowl long spells on good tracks. 

If we look at the Moores era versus Bayliss, one of the shitty elements has been the poor development of our bowlers. We don't seem to have an overall plan for anyone outside of Anderson and Broad and the handling of the slow bowling department has been risible. 

It's been a weird series, where some of the old guard for large periods of time just walked around the pitch and performed like they didn't give a shit/lost their desire (second test bowling was fucking awful) and watching Overton/Curran has been a breath of fresh air, they have looked really up for it at all times - FFS it's an Ashes series that's how players should be performing. 

Btw, it's a real shame Jack Leach can't get anywhere near the England team.

Agree about the development of our bowlers in particular the quicks.  

Going a bit off topic even though Taunton is one of the smaller grounds, it seems to have a decent atmosphere.   I really wish the ECB had put more energy into pushing it forward as an international ground rather than Cardiff.  

VimFuego

I got lost on Taunton today, there is not a single road sign anywhere to be seen. Honestly, they should level the entire place to the ground and start again from scratch. 

Heartfeltdawn

earwighoney said:

It's been a weird series, where some of the old guard for large periods of time just walked around the pitch and performed like they didn't give a shit/lost their desire (second test bowling was fucking awful) and watching Overton/Curran has been a breath of fresh air, they have looked really up for it at all times - FFS it's an Ashes series that's how players should be performing. 

Btw, it's a real shame Jack Leach can't get anywhere near the England team.

Agree about the development of our bowlers in particular the quicks.  

Going a bit off topic even though Taunton is one of the smaller grounds, it seems to have a decent atmosphere.   I really wish the ECB had put more energy into pushing it forward as an international ground rather than Cardiff.  

I'd put that down to captain and management. When Hussain and Vaughan were working with Duncan Fletcher, there was a clear plan around with regard to selection and development. Ashley Giles wasn't the greatest spinner by a long way but he performed in a way that benefited the team. When you look at our slow bowling situation, that plan hasn't been there. Rashid took wickets but got some stick, Moeen earlier in the year wasn't our number 1 spinner according to Bayliss himself, Dawson came in and went, and now we're in Australia with a lead spinner considered to not be a lead spinner and a close to complete rookie whose first class bowling average is worse than Moeen's Test average. Whereas Fletcher took a player like Ashley Giles and maximised his ability for the good of the team, England right now don't seem to be able to do that. 

On the seam bowling front... it is interesting that we had Shane Bond as bowling coach for the first two Tests before he went off to coach for Brisbane in the Big Bash. Perhaps a case of wrong coach giving out the wrong advice here? Chris Silverwood comes in to replace Ottis Gibson as full-time BC in January and he had an obvious impact at Essex so he might be a better choice. 

Leach is a good bowler but the modifications he had to make to his action meant he was never going to be picked. Probably another season of bowling away from being selectable. He gets wickets on the turning tracks but I think there is still a question about the repeatability of his action on better tracks. He got rather outbowled in Australia by a young chap I've seen a couple of times in league and 2nd XI cricket, Amar Virdi. 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/18521/scorecard/1128359/queensland-xi-vs-england-lions--eng-lions-in-aus-2017-18/

I've got a lot of time for Virdi's action and he really do spin the off break. If he gets developed the right way, I think he'll go all the way. Having the Oval as his home deck won't hurt him. 

Taunton is always a great place to go. Been there as a player and a spectator and loved it. Offered me plenty of bounce and turn as a legspinner and plenty of cider as a spectator Hopefully they will get some more ODI games there as they're a well run club. 

guitars4you

More frustration - just got up to see around 190-3 - few minutes later and 2 down - so potential to 'let down' - I'm a big J Root fan but getting frustrating how many times he gets 50's and no 3 figure scores to follow - his aggregate scores for this series are up there with Malan and Cook, but somehow he has not delivered and Cook is only up there on that big 244 - Root is probably 150/200 runs behind what you'd expect his aggregate score to be for the series

Heartfeltdawn

If you crank up big runs, then a side can cope with having an average attack. If you keep getting rolled for sub-par scores, it doesn't matter who you have with the ball.