The Ashes Winter 2017/18 Thread

Teetonetal

cj73 said:

I'm beginning to think Moeen is the new Collingwood.  Plays really poorly for a good few matches, position in doubt, gets one big score/haul of wickets....rinse and repeat

Moen was really good all summer. Before that they messed his batting position around but he has contributed with either ball or bat most series. Having a stinker in Aus though.

Legionreturns

That just shows what a good batting track it is. If the rest of our batting order had even vaguely applied themselves we should have set 500+

Losing 6 wickets for 30 odd runs is what's let us down. That and our openers can't seem to see off a new ball...which is their primary role.

VimFuego

/\ /\ what I was thinking, it's a 500 run wicket, so anything more than that is a winning score, anything much less and it's out of your control.
EDIT: it's frustrating, if cook had just got a start, 20 or so, and the tail contributed 60 or so between them, we'd be close to that. Poor team performance, made to look better by a couple of good knocks.

axisus

I feel so embarrassed by English cricket, when it goes wrong it feels like an absolute shambles. If our batting wasn't so absolutely pathetic on a batting wicket then we could have got a draw and at least avoided the whitewash. An England football match is 90 minutes of disappointment (usually), a test is 5 days of torture and the odd false hope.

scrumhalf

No reason not to have some radical changes for the next test.

Broad - no. He no longer offers anything with the bat and his bowlijng is too clumpy. He takes clumps of wickets very occasionally but more often than not he is uncaptainable and bowls as he please. Bring Mark Wood in.

Overton - no. Bring in Plunkett from wherever he is.

munckee

I'm not a technical expert but am I right we're completely f#cked here?

Legionreturns

munckee said:

I'm not a technical expert but am I right we're completely f#cked here?

That piece of high level analysis is spot on. If I were to use the full technical term I'd say we're completely fucking fucked but you were only missing one part. Not bad in layman's terms

cj73

Teetonetal said:

cj73 said:

I'm beginning to think Moeen is the new Collingwood.  Plays really poorly for a good few matches, position in doubt, gets one big score/haul of wickets....rinse and repeat

Moen was really good all summer. Before that they messed his batting position around but he has contributed with either ball or bat most series. Having a stinker in Aus though.

Yes, I was possibly being a tad unfair.  

I predict that aus will rock up a quick hundred or so in the morning then declare, giving England the chance to collapse 

Teetonetal

^ eek to have two 100s and a 50 then lose by an innings would be bleak.

guitars4you

munckee said:

I'm not a technical expert but am I right we're completely f#cked here?

Great technical term that we all understand

Heartfeltdawn

VimFuego said:

/\ /\ what I was thinking, it's a 500 run wicket, so anything more than that is a winning score, anything much less and it's out of your control.
EDIT: it's frustrating, if cook had just got a start, 20 or so, and the tail contributed 60 or so between them, we'd be close to that. Poor team performance, made to look better by a couple of good knocks.

History said it would be a pitch of runs. 

4 down. Just survive tonight please, chaps. Take it into another day. 

Dopesick

Absolutely pathetic. I wouldn't put it past them to lose by an innings. Cook and Broad are on exceedingly thin ice, their test careers could be over when they get back home.

crunchman

If Malan and Bairstow can put together another partnership like they did in the first innings then we might be able to escape with a draw.  Not optimistic without some help from the weather, but they need to at least show some fight.

The worrying thing is that it's some of the senior players who haven't shown up.  Malan has more runs than Cook and Root put together, and Broad has been useless.  He has 5 wickets in the series at an average of 61.8.  He was bowling at 78mph when I was watching the other day.  When you see Overton bowling with a brorken rib,and Broad is just trundling through the motions, you have to wonder what is going on in his head.

Legionreturns

Heartfeltdawn said:
Just survive tonight please, chaps. Take it into another day. 

Why? They could get to the pub quicker. That's clearly all they've gone for!

Nitefly

Dopesick said:

Absolutely pathetic. I wouldn't put it past them to lose by an innings. Cook and Broad are on exceedingly thin ice, their test careers could be over when they get back home.

Do we have to wait that long?

crunchman

Nitefly said:

Dopesick said:

Absolutely pathetic. I wouldn't put it past them to lose by an innings. Cook and Broad are on exceedingly thin ice, their test careers could be over when they get back home.

Do we have to wait that long?

At this point, I'd give Cook the benefit of the doubt.  It's not like there are lots of other openers banging the door down.  Look at the revolving door at the other end until Stoneman came along.  I genuinely don't think there is anyone better at this point.  If he has the hunger to carry on, I'd let him for now.  He's still only 32 (for another week anyway) so he should have something left.

I think Broad needs to go.  When fast bowlers lose that nip they very rarely get it back.  He looks like Gillespie in 2005.  They would be better off picking someone younger and quicker even if they do spray it around a bit.  It's not like Broad is even keeping it tight.  He went at more than 4 an over in the Aussie innings.  Even with his cracked rib, Overton has bowled better than Broad in this innings, and hit 87mph on occasions.  When Stokes is back then Broad is definitely the one to leave out based on current form.

Craig Overton is a gutsy player, but I don't see him as the next great fast bowler.  Maybe his brother is if he can stay fit. 
England do need to find a good young fast bowler from somewhere.

Having said that, beyond the three currently in the team, I don't think Australia are much better off than us.  They don't have a lot of depth, and Cummins has had a lot of injury problems over his career.  This is the first time in his career he's actually managed to play 3 consecutive tests.

Neill

I hate to keep admitting it but Geoff Boycott has been consistently right with his comments on this series.  England's problems can be summed up in one word - pace, ie the lack of it.  

I've heard it said that with proper coaching there is a crop of bowlers on the domestic scene who could reach 90mph consistently but it seems one of the problems is they can't stay injury free for any length of time.  I don't follow the game closely enough to have an opinion on this - why do our quick bowlers seem to be injury prone?

scrumhalf

Proper coaching is one thing but when do they get the chance to bowl quickly?

County championship matches are played in conditions which are not favourable to pace. Promotion and relegation means that counties won't take a chance on a fledgling quick but will rather sign an overseas player who can do a job.

The ECB have clearly decided that the one day game is their focus, despite a recent poll of fans which showed an overwhelming majority wanting Ashes success over ODI World Cup success.

VimFuego

thing is, the fans may say they want test cricket, but in the domestic game, which format is putting bums on seats? People may say they want something, but may not vote that way with their wallets.

crunchman

scrumhalf said:

Proper coaching is one thing but when do they get the chance to bowl quickly?

County championship matches are played in conditions which are not favourable to pace. Promotion and relegation means that counties won't take a chance on a fledgling quick but will rather sign an overseas player who can do a job.

The ECB have clearly decided that the one day game is their focus, despite a recent poll of fans which showed an overwhelming majority wanting Ashes success over ODI World Cup success.

Not sure it's always "not favourable to pace", but the championship matches are played early and late season and it's almost all one day cricket in the middle of the season when it's hot and dry and the pitches are hard.  If you are playing in May or September, the 78mph wobble it around in green conditions kind of bowler will be very effective, and a spinner doesn't matter much.

They need to be playing championship matches in July and August.  Get the meaningless one day stuff out of the way early in the season like they did with the old B&H zonal matches. In the middle of summer, with hard dry pitches, proper pace or an attacking spinner would be a necessity.