Custom Chibson Experience (Internals vid added)

Niallmo

Love that Si. I may have to get an Epi 335 in Pelham Blue.

It does look good for the money and the custom features make it more than fair given what its end up costing. Looking forward to some vids!

JookyChap

randomhandclaps said:

digitalscream said:

Not quite, but it is up there...

Shit that boils your piss	15892
He's at it again.	15352
Show us your pedalboard.	12924
The wide neck guitar criminal!	11976
Custom Chibson Experience: It's arrived (page 12)	10194

So put simply, get that undercut nut sorted and whack a Tele bridge pickup in that neck spot and you'd have a winning thread.

Can't help but wonder whether there are thousands of people on a Chinese forum, looking at the Wide Neck threads and laughing at how shonky British guitars are

bigjon

usedtobe;213607" said:

Fascinating thread! Lol'd at 'choubleneck'..!

It's the Chunderbird models that seem destined to suffer most from the naming system

guitargeek62

Neil said:

I'm sorry if I sound like a critic and I realise you can't get a Trini just anywhere but by the time you have finished spending on your new guitar do you not think you could have got something similar better from Epiphone, Ibanez etc for possibly less money and also have the chance to try before you buy? 

Hi Neil,

Good points through and through, but I've got a fair few reasons why I didn't go for a brand guitar.

Epiphone - The main reason is that they just don't seem to make guitars with neck profiles that I like. Even a generic C would be fine, but their semis always seem to be a D profile and that doesn't work for me. I'd have really liked to have bought one of the recent (now discontinued) Dot Pro models, but the one I tried still had the D profile. Even if I had, I'd still have swapped out the pickups & loom for something "better", and the tuners too as the stock ones have those hideous snot-green keys. 

Thomann are clearing the last of them out at £245, an amazing price for sure, but I'd never have kept it long-term because of the neck profile.

Ibanez - No-one can argue that they don't build great guitars, but I'm after a vintage reissue, not a tribute/pastiche. Again I haven't found many Ibanez's necks that suit me, and my experience with the cheaper end of their archtops (albeit none for 7 years?) also found frets in need of a mild polish, and small niggles here & there. Nothing major for the price-point, and I'm sure it's not a global or current problem on them. 

Looking at their current lineup, I'd have been most interested in this one. Again, the stock ceramic pickups would have gone, as would the loom; and I'd have swapped the tuners (or buttons at least) out for something that didn't look like Grovers. The neck is a bit slim for me - the nut depth is listed as 21mm. It's a good price though at £329, but that doesn't save me anything over the Trini.

Chibson Trini - Base-cost of £290, total incl. taxes of £332. It has the neck profile I wanted, an ebony fingerboard (I paid an extra $20 for that, so take that off the cost to compare to the Ibanez & Epi's rosewood). I've replaced the trapeze for cosmetic reasons, but the stock one is absolutely fine. Here's all of the mods that I've had in mind from inception;

- Tonepros Kluson keystone tuners - £34

- Mandolin pickguard bracket - £8

- Correct-shape pickguard - £8

- New wiring loom - ~£25 (I've got half the parts in my spares drawer already anyway)

- Bridge M4-M8 posts (I prefer the look of the old-style ABR-1 with the smaller posts) - £7

- Gotoh ABR-1 with nylon saddles - £21

- Nickel Trapeze with embossed diamond - £20

- New pickups - ~£120

Total modification cost: £235

If I remove all of the cosmetic-only ones (bridge, posts, trapeze, pickguard & bracket, then that comes down to £179. I'm also fortunate enough to have trade accounts with Allparts & WD Music, so my costs are slightly lower than most would pay. I have no qualms about using secondhand hardware or pickups either, so there's a good chance that I can bring it below £200 with a bit of patience. That would take my overall cost to ~£530, so let's look at the £550 bracket.

For £550, I might have been really lucky and found an Edwards semi-hollow on the used market here. I suspect not though as they seem to go for around £700 on average. I've played a couple of Edwards guitars, and they certainly are a better-made instrument than this Chibson. There are very few changes that I'd make to one, and I actually plan on buying one in the next couple of years anyway. It still doesn't look like a Trini though.

The real reason for this buying experiment is that I had a very specific set of criteria that I was looking for, and a low budget to get it with. I'm more than happy to perform maintenance and upgrades on my own gear, so as long as it was structurally sound I didn't expect to have anything to fear. I'm a natural tinkerer, so whatever I bought was always going to be modified regardless. I enjoy tweaking & improving gear, and it usually doesn't cost very much at all to improve a guitar such as this.

I feel I should clarify about the centre-block further. This picture makes it look worse than it is, what I meant to explain is that the sides of the block are rough-sawn, and that the joint isn't square-cut. There's no gaps or flex at all around the join, and nothing there to concern me about it's stability. I can completely understand why it's like this at this price, you'd literally have to pay someone pence per hour 

to expect an perfectly-fitted block at this price without making a loss. I'll try and take some better photos soon.

In regards to the routing for the control cover, it's sloppy, but it looks far worse than it is. I'll do an "after" shot and show how little I've removed with a scalpel to clean it up, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

The binding cap at the end of the fretboard is disappointing, and it's easily the most obvious flaw that I've found. However, it's partially obscured as soon as you're holding the guitar in a playing position anyway, and you have to be looking for it to spot it in the first place.

All-in-all I don't argue that an Epiphone or Ibanez would have been a safer option to go for, but in terms of monetary costs and post-purchase upgrades I sincerely doubt that I'd have saved much more than £50 total. Remember that most of the upgrades I listed above would have applied to an Epi or Ibanez too, for me at least.

Neil

@guitargeek62

Thanks for your very detailed reply which gave me and everybody else a very interesting insight into your motives and what you got for your money.

As I previously said your candidness and willingness to share your experience with the rest of the forum has resulted in a very interesting and highly viewed thread for which you deserve credit (wisdom conferred) .

It certainly is a looker as all Trini's are and I wish you many happy hours of enjoyment with it.  

Gagaryn

guitargeek62 said:

but I'm after a vintage reissue, not a tribute/pastiche.

This thread is really interesting and I had been giving some thought to ordering something - the chance to get something 'custom made' to specific requirements is tempting. I would expect the electrics and hardware to be cheap as chips which is why I was considering ordering with these omitted  - so long as the construction was to a high standard, as the website implies.

Without being too negative (I hope), seeing some of the 'niggles' has put me off, I think I might always have in the back of my mind that there was some bodging going on to make it look good cosmetically.

I think you said at the beginning of this thread that if the guitar was of similar quality to an Epiphone you would be happy. From the pictures, which admittedly may make things look worse than they are, it doesn't seem to be similar quality to an Epi. And without getting into the copyright and morality issue, I'm certainly not convinced that this can be described as a vintage reissue.

Sorry if this comes across as overly negative, but I think we are all getting a bit excited by the prospect of getting quality guitars custom made for next to nothing on the other side of the world. These were never going to compete with domestically produced guitars for quality - this is probably a completely different market, but I'm not convinced that this build is comparable with Epis and the like. It does look nice though. :-)

guitargeek62

No problem at all, it's been a fun process and I've been very impressed with the seller professionalism throughout. 

One thing that I haven't mentioned yet is that there's a clear difference between the hue of the pelham blue finish shown on their website, and what has been applied to this guitar. I'm not sure how much of it may purely be due to lighting differences, as my one changes a lot depending on level/intensity, but I'll play around with it some more and see if I can replicate how it looks on the site. If I can't then I think they've either used a darker base-coat before applying the colour, or a darker tint overall. It'll be hard to be sure without knowing exactly how this one was painted, so I'll scrape some paint back in the cavities and see what that shows us. 

I'll also be permanently marking it as a Chibson in the pickup cavities too, and also on the underside of the treble f-hole via the control access route. I might even create a Chibson label to put inside the body if I can figure out a decent way to secure it in place neatly!

guitargeek62

Gagaryn said:guitargeek62 said:

but I'm after a vintage reissue, not a tribute/pastiche.

Sorry if this comes across as overly negative, but I think we are all getting a bit excited by the prospect of getting quality guitars custom made for next to nothing on the other side of the world. These were never going to compete with domestically produced guitars for quality - this is probably a completely different market, but I'm not convinced that this build is comparable with Epis and the like. It does look nice though. :-)

Not at all! It wouldn't matter if it did anyway, this is a discussion forum and it's entirely welcome!

I completely agree that an Epi wouldn't have had the same faults with the binding at the end of the fingerboard, or the truss rod cover alignment etc. Apart from those though I see very little difference here between them, and I'll be looking for internals pics of Epiphones/Ibanez etc for comparisons next week to see how different they really are.

I don't want anyone to jump on the bandwagon and order more as a result of this one example, it's not a large enough sample to draw any strong conclusions from really, and certainly couldn't apply to Chibsons from other sellers etc. I'm sure Travis & Kelvin will show photos of their two once they arrive too so at least then we can begin to see levels of consistency etc.

My use of "vintage reissue" should be taken with a heavy pinch of salt, I mean simply that I wanted something that looked 95% like an old Gibson. Things like the F-hole shape, body outline, inlays, and headstock shape etc. I'm not making any pretence that the ply construction is authentic, or that the top carve is identical to a '65 Trini - it clearly isn't. But the important thing to me is that it looks the part, and has a lot of potential to go from a (currently) good guitar, to a great one with a few changes. 

All of the important areas are perfect better-than-expected* , and playability isn't affected one bit, so that's a win in my book.

*I can't say perfect yet, honeymoon stage etc.!

ESBlonde

This is (sadly) the interior construction of an original Gibson Semi. you can see the method of obtaining a tight fit is quite labour intensive with a spruce plate Kurf cut onto the top/bottom and then planed flat to match a further centre block neatly fitted to the Kurfed plate. Also plenty of traditional kurfing between the side and back or front.

http://www.es-335.net/interior.html

I appreciate @guitargeek62 going to a great deal of expense and trouble over this guitar, it has been a revelation for many including myself.

EricTheWeary

I think in the costings worth bearing on mind you did/ are doing the wiring, etc, yourself. Someone unable/ unwilling to do the work probably needs to add £100 to the budget.

guitargeek62

Fair point Eric!

@ESBlonde - yep, they're made to a much higher standard and a lot more is spent on that type of construction. Do you happen to know if Epi's are built the same way? I suspect they're more like my Trini, but I don't remember seeing internals of one before.

guitargeek62

This is interesting, looks like Epi's from the Qingdao factory are built "properly"!

Link to factory tour

I must say that I'm very surprised by that, and I'd now really like to try mine next to an Epi dot from there to see how they compare before I make any changes. Mine seems quite loud acoustically, and has a very nice unplugged tone that sustains very sweetly indeed so I'll be surprised if there's much in it between the two! There's a noticeable change in the unplugged tone when I hold a chord and then place my hand on the body to dampen the vibration, it's pretty cool and seems to be a good sign.

Playability update: No buzzes etc today, should have settled in by now I guess.

ChrisMusic

Is that not a Casino in the photographs ?  The top end Epi may well be constructed differently given the retail pricing differential.

funstuie

I will come clean - I have a few "chibsons". I got the first one when i was in china for work and mentioned something about guitars and on my last day they gave me a les Paul - but they explained it was a copy - but it was perfect to my eyes. I had to have it shipped as I could not bring it on the plane. It took nearly 12 weeks to get to me in the UK. I upgraded the wiring and pickups and dressed the frets. I eventually had to change the bridge as it was useless. Total spend on that one - £125. At the time I contacted my colleague and enquirer about getting another one. He put me onto dhgate so I ordered a dg365 (like the one ordered here) due to the favourable exchange rate at the time (approx 15 months ago) I paid about £150 shipped with a case. The guitar itself looks great but everything on it needed replacing and I went traditional which cost a bit more. That one has ended up not really being used as I could never get on with it. Since then I have ordered 3 more guitars. All expect one were great - an iguana burst SG which is a piece of shit (I can photo if y'all would like). I have been lucky with mine (the SG cost £90 delivered due to a voucher/sale combo) but I am meticulous about researching sellers, contacting them asking questions etc.

These guitars are not epiphones with a Gibson headstock. They are somewhere in between. Having spoke to my Chinese work colleagues about it they tell me they are not out the back of a factory. The templates etc exist and the same people who work for he guitar factories have little "family run" businesses on the side. The sellers on aliexpress/dhgate/ioffer etc are mostly middle men who order from the knockoff factories. In china you can go to a reputable guitar shop and a $5000 Gibson les Paul will be on the wall right next to its $300 copy.

I will never be selling any of mine. I bought them all as projects. The first was a gift and as I have had some spare cash I have ordered one. Mostly I order something I just can't get anywhere. I tell anyone who asks they are fakes/copies and I have taken one to a guitar tech who was very impressed with the quality and work.

Personally I would not encourage anyone to go out and buy one but it's your money and you can do as you please. None of mine have been playable out of the box - some have required very little "tinkering" but still all required some level of knowledge etc. I have expensive guitars and I have cheap guitars. These "chibsons" fit into the curious side of my nature. I used all to learn about setting up a guitar, wiring etc. I have tried loads of different pickup combos etc. By the way don't order without the hardware - you might as well order a kit guitar from them. From what I have seen, although the hardware and electronics are rubbish its also a guide for the "builder". You will only get a $20 discount anyway.

Its weird I didnt order them to get a Gibson for less than epiphone money but these are great guitars, if they had a Chinese headstock/logo no one would touch them or know about them. There is a market for them and the Chinese are just filling that market. The major problem is the people who sell them on eBay/gumtree etc as the real deal. Something I won't be doing (I have branded all mine under the pickups)

guitargeek62

ChrisMusic said:

Is that not a Casino in the photographs ?  The top end Epi may well be constructed differently given the retail pricing differential.

Nope, quite a few have centerblocks unlike Casinos.

guitargeek62

@funstuie Thanks for the info, pics would be great!

funstuie

guitargeek62;214091" said:

@funstuie Thanks for the info, pics would be great!

When I get back from Devon next week

randomhandclaps

JookyChap said:

randomhandclaps said:

digitalscream said:

Not quite, but it is up there...

Shit that boils your piss	15892
He's at it again.	15352
Show us your pedalboard.	12924
The wide neck guitar criminal!	11976
Custom Chibson Experience: It's arrived (page 12)	10194

So put simply, get that undercut nut sorted and whack a Tele bridge pickup in that neck spot and you'd have a winning thread.

Can't help but wonder whether there are thousands of people on a Chinese forum, looking at the Wide Neck threads and laughing at how shonky British guitars are

Thanks Jooky.  Got a splitting migraine and was resultantly in a shocking mood but that really made me laugh.

guitargeek62

funstuie;214098" said:

[quote="guitargeek62;214091"]@funstuie Thanks for the info, pics would be great!

When I get back from Devon next week

[/quote]

I'd offer you a cuppa if you're anywhere near plymouth, but I'm having enough trouble staying on track with this report as it is! :O

funstuie

guitargeek62;214120" said:

funstuie;214098" said:[quote="guitargeek62;214091"]@funstuie Thanks for the info, pics would be great!

When I get back from Devon next week

I'd offer you a cuppa if you're anywhere near plymouth, but I'm having enough trouble staying on track with this report as it is! :O[/quote]

Thanks for the offer. We were at the aquarium in Plymouth today (family duties).