Putin's Poisoners at it in Salisbury

roundthebend

gubble said:

One thing i find really odd about all of this is Amesbury.

I have a relative who lives opposite the baptist church in Amesbury literally 15 metres away. The dya the two civillians were poisoned i was there visiting said relative. We even walked past the baptist church a few times that day at the time they were there (there was a community BBQ going on).

At the time they cordoned off the field they were using and the baptist church, roll forwards to now the field is all clear howver the baptist church is still cordoned off with 24 hour guards. Given what we now about where these people found the perfume bottle etc this is really strange and something doesn't add up to me.

Can you explain better what it is that is confusing you? Is your question "Why did they cordon off the field initially but not now, when the church remains cordoned off?"

Snags

I go to a Baptist Church. Cordoning them off often seems like a very good idea.

Phil_aka_Pip

@Fretwired Hope I didn't quote it incorrectly. Was thinking about the song on my way back from the chippy not long ago and I may have missed something out. Good song though

Fretwired

Phil_aka_Pip said:

@Fretwired Hope I didn't quote it incorrectly. Was thinking about the song on my way back from the chippy not long ago and I may have missed something out. Good song though

My favourite Who album as well ... great track .. maybe my joke was too subtle .. ;-)

gubble

roundthebend said:

gubble said:

Can you explain better what it is that is confusing you? Is your question "Why did they cordon off the field initially but not now, when the church remains cordoned off?"

Why the church remains cordoned off is confusing me. Being under the impression the item was found in their home rather than at the church - why should it still remained cordoned off?

roundthebend

@Fretwired ;
That Craig Murray article is a reasonable read. I've no idea who he is but he makes a few decent points and makes me pause for thought.

I think the evidence we have is circumstantial so far. But their story just doesn't feel right. If we accept that Salisbury is a tourist destination worth dropping in for a couple of days, and that staying in Central London rather than Salisbury itself is a sensible idea, then I'm left with one question:

"Given you're on a brief visit to see Salisbury Cathedral and Stonehenge, wouldn't it be prudent to arrive in the city much earlier than 11:48 and to know where you're going so you don't get lost?"

Heartfeltdawn

Fretwired said:

Have you read this .. doing the rounds this morning ..

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/09/lynch-mob-mentality/

I have and it is ludicrous. 

Fretwired

roundthebend said:

@Fretwired ;
That Craig Murray article is a reasonable read. I've no idea who he is but he makes a few decent points and makes me pause for thought.

He's a former British diplomat and British Ambassador for Uzbekistan until he was removed from his post in October 2004 after exposing appalling human rights abuses by the US-funded regime of President Islam Karimov.

He bears a very public grudge against HMG, the establishment and sections of the press.

Heartfeltdawn

roundthebend said:

@Fretwired ;
That Craig Murray article is a reasonable read. I've no idea who he is but he makes a few decent points and makes me pause for thought.

I think the evidence we have is circumstantial so far. But their story just doesn't feel right. If we accept that Salisbury is a tourist destination worth dropping in for a couple of days, and that staying in Central London rather than Salisbury itself is a sensible idea, then I'm left with one question:

"Given you're on a brief visit to see Salisbury Cathedral and Stonehenge, wouldn't it be prudent to arrive in the city much earlier than 11:48 and to know where you're going so you don't get lost?"

I lived in Wiltshire for most of my life and often travelled back there from London. To get to my area of Wiltshire from Waterloo ie. the train route the Russians took, Salisbury is an interchange stop predominantly by South West Trains. I know Salisbury very well having worked and played cricket there several times. 

When they visited on March 3rd they would have seen the clear signposting at the station directing you to the city centre and cathedral. The first sign is right outside the main entrance of the station. 

For them to then visit on the 4th and go in completely the opposite direction to the cathedral is ludicrous. I simply do not believe that two people who are canny enough to arrive at Gatwick, take the Express up to Victoria, and then manage to get to Bow in East London to the hotel, before being capable enough to manage to get to Salisbury the next day, are then daft enough to go the wrong way in Salisbury. A map of the area shows how far off track they went from the cathedral. 

MAP

You then look at their timings. From Waterloo the train to Salisbury departs around 1020. On the 4th they arrived at 1148. 1158 they're captured on CCTV on Wilton Road.

At 1305 they were heading for the train station. The Indie says they embarked on their journey back to London at 1350 and arrived at Waterloo at 1645. A three hour train journey is unusually long. That suggests they either were the victim of delays, quite possible due to the weather conditions at the time, or they took a train from Waterloo to Southampton Central and connected to Waterloo. Ordinarily that journey with the Southampton connection is about 2 hours 20 minutes long. 

CCTV footage shows one rucksack between them on the 4th. If they returned to London at 1645, they'd have to go from Waterloo to Bow Road, pick up stuff from the hotel, and check out. The Indie reports that they got on the Tube at 1830 to Heathrow before going through passport control at 1928. 

So for their time in Salisbury, 

That's one heck of a travel itinerary and means that, had they gone to Salisbury cathedral, they'd have spent no more than an hour there between 1200 and 1300 on March 4. 

Flight times from Moscow to London: six and a half hours minimum so let's call it 13 hours in total.
Train travel: Day 1: Gatwick to Victoria (30 mins), Victoria to Bow Road (30 mins). One hour+.  
                        Day 2: Bow Road to Waterloo, Waterloo to Salisbury, Salisbury to Waterloo. Waterloo to Bow Road.
                         At least 5 hours, likely more with the poor weather of the time. 
                        Day 3: Bow Road to Waterloo, Waterloo to Salisbury, Salisbury to Waterloo, Waterloo to Bow Road,
                                    Bow Road to Heathrow - I would give a rough estimate of 6 to 7 hours for this. 

All of this for an hour at the cathedral? No chance.

Heartfeltdawn

Fretwired said:

He's a former British diplomat and British Ambassador for Uzbekistan until he was removed from his post in October 2004 after exposing appalling human rights abuses by the US-funded regime of President Islam Karimov.

He bears a very public grudge against HMG, the establishment and sections of the press.

When the story broke with the poisoning of the Skripals, he was right to question things. Elements of his articles did demand greater scrutiny. This however is so fucking pissweak, it's untrue. 

JerkMoans

"We're sports nutritionists and we've gone on holiday by mistake. Is this the spire?"

roundthebend

@Heartfeltdawn ;
It's especially weird that they got lost on the 2nd day of visiting. You'd think that the first day being written off due to bad weather would have made them a bit more focused on going the right way. And, unless there was something blocking their view as they left Salisbury train station, the cathedral is fairly dominant in your view as you exit. You'd have to be really bad with sense of direction to go completely in the wrong direction. Again, this is especially weird given that you've flown in for a fleeting visit because the cathedral is so amazing you just had to come and see it.

I'm not saying that everything stacks up in the British side of the story, but it's got fewer and shallower holes in it.

jpfamps

Fretwired said:

Heartfeltdawn said:

Fretwired said:

Sorry but you're wrong.

I know someone who works for the tourist board who is pleased with this publicity. She says they have invested heavily in marketing Salisbury to the Russians with remarkable results, although she did say that maybe the Russian Traitor Tour guide bus shouldn't have stopped outside the Skripal's house for photos.

I recommend not buying the 'perfume' in the gift shop.

Apparently due to Brexit it's now made in Russia .. they've just launched a men's aftershave .. Putin swears by it ..

It should be GRU not KGB (or FSB as it is now).

Emp_Fab

He made a technical error in a joke that didn't detract from the funniness.  SEND HIM TO THE GULAG!!

Heartfeltdawn

roundthebend said:

@Heartfeltdawn ;
It's especially weird that they got lost on the 2nd day of visiting. You'd think that the first day being written off due to bad weather would have made them a bit more focused on going the right way. And, unless there was something blocking their view as they left Salisbury train station, the cathedral is fairly dominant in your view as you exit. You'd have to be really bad with sense of direction to go completely in the wrong direction. Again, this is especially weird given that you've flown in for a fleeting visit because the cathedral is so amazing you just had to come and see it.

I'm not saying that everything stacks up in the British side of the story, but it's got fewer and shallower holes in it.

Indeed the cathedral is present. It can easily be seen from the station concourse. A Google Maps link shows everything you and I have said. The entrance to the station is on the left as is the main signpost indicating the direction of the city centre and tourist information. 

Consider this broken down further. On the 4th they arrived at 1148. Salisbury Cathedral is a 15 minute walk from the station (0.7 miles).  At 1158 they were pictured on Wilton Road round near the Shell petrol station. Now if we give them the benefit of the doubt and they suddenly decided to use a mobile mapping app, then to walk from that Shell station to the Cathedral is 25 minutes walk. This would place them at the cathedral for 1225. 

At 1305 and 1308 they were pictured on CCTV on Fisherton Street. Cathedral to Fisherton to station is a 15 minute walk. They took a 1350 train. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43643025

With those sort of times and maps, then the much-vaunted trip to the amazing spire of Salisbury Cathedral would have been in the region of 30 minutes. 

*cough.splutter/laugh/etc*

As I posted up earlier:

Flight times from Moscow to London: six and a half hours minimum so let's call it 13 hours in total.
Train travel: Day 1: Gatwick to Victoria (30 mins), Victoria to Bow Road (30 mins). One hour+.  
                        Day 2: Bow Road to Waterloo, Waterloo to Salisbury, Salisbury to Waterloo. Waterloo to Bow Road. 
                         At least 5 hours, likely more with the poor weather of the time. 
                        Day 3: Bow Road to Waterloo, Waterloo to Salisbury, Salisbury to Waterloo, Waterloo to Bow Road, 
                                    Bow Road to Heathrow - I would give a rough estimate of 6 to 7 hours for this. 

All of these are conservative estimates. The reason I am focusing on these is because I know these routes so bloody well. I lived in Trowbridge for 15 years, my family still live there, I have friends in Salisbury, I had regular trips to the then Salisbury District Council, my time in London in 2002 and now meant going back via the slower trains (Waterloo via Salisbury rather than the Paddington-Bristol Intercity trains), and I regularly shuttled from Wiltshire to Gatwick and Heathrow thanks to my transatlantic marriage in the first decade of this century. I've slept rough in Salisbury a couple of times after missing the last train, stayed awake all night in both airports, shuttled on coaches up and down the M4. I know Salisbury and the connections to London very well, and the timings of the CCTV pictures simply don't add up to this grand overarching story of having a woody for a cathedral spire and clock. 

Folk like Craig Murray want us to believe that two tourists can successfully navigate and travel upon the London Underground, the Gatwick Express, two South West Train trips out of London to Salisbury and back, along with flights from and to Moscow from two different bloody airports, all at a time when public transport timetables are affected by poor weather...

...yet they can't navigate their way correctly around a 0.7 mile region of Salisbury some 20 hours after visiting it on the 3rd.  



 

snakemanStoo

Tony Robinson‏Verified account @Tony_Robinson 11h11 hours ago

More

I’m currently pitching a series to Channel 5 where Mr Petrov and Mr Boshirov take us round some of Britain’s greatest monuments. It’s to be called ‘ I Spy With My Little Eye’. I think it could be as big a Time Team.

darthed1981

It would have been much more fun if they had come out and said...

"We are assassins, we were requested indirectly by the President to kill a dissident, and we were instructed to do it in a way which also consitituted a threat to the UK in general, so we launched a WMD attack within the United Kingdom..."

Of course FUN in this context would mean "bringing the world a little bit closer to thermonuclear war", so maybe us all getting a good laugh out of Putin's bullshit isn't such a bad thing?

Heartfeltdawn

darthed1981 said:

It would have been much more fun if they had come out and said...

"We are assassins, we were requested indirectly by the President to kill a dissident, and we were instructed to do it in a way which also consitituted a threat to the UK in general, so we launched a WMD attack within the United Kingdom..."

Of course FUN in this context would mean "bringing the world a little bit closer to thermonuclear war", so maybe us all getting a good laugh out of Putin's bullshit isn't such a bad thing?

When you say "we were requested indirectly by the President", do you mean the President who's doing his best for Russian interests or that other President who's doing his best for Russian interests?  

darthed1981

Heartfeltdawn said:

darthed1981 said:

It would have been much more fun if they had come out and said...

"We are assassins, we were requested indirectly by the President to kill a dissident, and we were instructed to do it in a way which also consitituted a threat to the UK in general, so we launched a WMD attack within the United Kingdom..."

Of course FUN in this context would mean "bringing the world a little bit closer to thermonuclear war", so maybe us all getting a good laugh out of Putin's bullshit isn't such a bad thing?

When you say "we were requested indirectly by the President", do you mean the President who's doing his best for Russian interests or that other President who's doing his best for Russian interests?  

I mean I suspect he told their bosses who told them, I doubt Vlad has time to micro manage all his stuff.

He has done far too well for me to think he is a poor delegator.

For the record I like him.

tone1

I’ve decided not to comment on this thread in case they’re reading it....