Burglar got killed

Steffo

The guy is 78! Burgling elderly people is the lowest of the low, a bit harsh maybe but the burglar has no sympathy from me, even if he ended up as a fish finger in the morgue.

Brize

amarok1971 said:

Let's spare a thought for the poor old lad who has to live with this for the rest of his days, I wouldn't like to have to have that on my conscience, self defence or not    I bet it will haunt him forever.

I don't usually have a heart of stone when it comes to this sort of thing, but I can honestly say that my conscience would be entirely clear.

ESBlonde

One story I heard was that the 78 year old man had a disabled wife upstairs. First armed burgler holds old man in kitched downstairs while second armed burgler goes upstairs to the wife! (Unsure of the soure of that now as I've seen all sorts).
I'm not sure how to prove or dispel that story so far, however I may not always be a gentleman, but putting me in that position would possibly make me react in a manner not becoming that of a gentleman toward the armed robber in order to act like a gentleman to the old disabled lady. I accept that non of us are in possession of all the facts or even the real ones. I can't help but feel sorry for the old man forced into a very difficult position by a young man preying on the defenceless.

Garthy

ESBlonde said:

One story I heard was that the 78 year old man had a disabled wife upstairs. First armed burgler holds old man in kitched downstairs while second armed burgler goes upstairs to the wife! (Unsure of the soure of that now as I've seen all sorts).
I'm not sure how to prove or dispel that story so far, however I may not always be a gentleman, but putting me in that position would possibly make me react in a manner not becoming that of a gentleman toward the armed robber in order to act like a gentleman to the old disabled lady. I accept that non of us are in possession of all the facts or even the real ones. I can't help but feel sorry for the old man forced into a very difficult position by a young man preying on the defenceless.

The police confirmed this yesterday.

Bellycaster

I'm well aware that an arrest is not the same as conviction etc @digitalscream ;

I'd like to be a Fly on the Wall in the interview room though, just to see how much compassion the Police have with people in these instances. My guess would be "Not Much"

The Police procedure is flawed and in a way, it contradicts the "Innocent Until Proven Guilty" principle. You have a given person who has just been burgled or attacked in the Street and will naturally be in a heightened state of anger, aggression, basically every negative emotion you can think of, they may even be in Shock and then you get told you are under arrest.

Is it not surprising that some people will then act with aggression towards the Officer that delivers the bad news? This will happen I expect and I can't blame them. I'd be fucking incensed about it.

There are plenty of other ways they could go about it rather than say "You are under Arrest". How about "Could you come to the Station in the next couple of days to make an official statement, we may have to ask you further questions down the line"

I understand if you get arrested, then they can take a DNA Sample. I feel that would be an infringement of my rights, having done Fuck All wrong. The Police and DNA Files, that's terrifying.

Bellycaster

goldtop said:

And when it's the unfortunate chap next door, who got really sh1tfaced this time, got the wrong house, couldn't get the key to work and decided to climb in through a window - just one of those things?

Escalating vigilante justice element to fix the failures of the criminal justice system is going to create collateral damage. Who provides justice for those victims?

Yeah, because that happens all the time doesn't it? If it does happen, most of the time the people involved would probably not end up dead.

Vigilantism is not the same as Self Defence, by the way!

VimFuego

one piece of advice I was given once (by a solicitor was who did criminal work) was that people can often be convicted as much by what they say to the police as what they actually did. This is why, no matter how much pressure the police put on you, if you are being questioned about a crime, always have a lawyer present, even if it does mean waiting hours for one.
Now, I have no idea what this guy said to the police or whether he has a lawyer there, but you can imagine all sorts of things getting blurted out in error by someone who is stressed and agitated etc. 

Bellycaster

VimFuego said:

one piece of advice I was given once (by a solicitor was who did criminal work) was that people can often be convicted as much by what they say to the police as what they actually did. This is why, no matter how much pressure the police put on you, if you are being questioned about a crime, always have a lawyer present, even if it does mean waiting hours for one.
Now, I have no idea what this guy said to the police or whether he has a lawyer there, but you can imagine all sorts of things getting blurted out in error by someone who is stressed and agitated etc. 

Wiz x 10000 if I could. Remember also "You have the right to remain silent" the next sentence after that says it all.

digitalscream

Bellycaster said:

The Police procedure is flawed and in a way, it contradicts the "Innocent Until Proven Guilty" principle. You have a given person who has just been burgled or attacked in the Street and will naturally be in a heightened state of anger, aggression, basically every negative emotion you can think of, they may even be in Shock and then you get told you are under arrest.

Not really, in the eyes of the law - the bigger (potential) offence is always given priority. Therefore, if you've been burgled or attacked and you then killed the other person, the fact that you killed someone takes precedence over everything else that's occurred (in the first instance). That's as it should be, in my opinion; I can't see any situation in which somebody is killed where an arrest isn't appropriate, to be honest. Consider...

1 - Somebody's murdered (as opposed to "just" killed) somebody else; asking them to pop down to the station at their leisure is self-evidently silly.

2 - Somebody's accidentally killed somebody; there's at least a 50/50 chance they're going to try to scarper as soon as you've left them your card and wandered off for a doughnut. There's also a non-negligible chance of self-harm out of guilt, so having you in the cells where they can keep an eye on you is as much for your safety as the public's.

3 - Somebody's killed somebody else in self-defence; probably less than 50% chance of doing a runner, but not by much.

On top of all these things, there's no way for the officers to tell if the killer has any mental stability issues, or even if they were the victim in the first instance at all (since folk who've just killed somebody have a tendency to not tell the truth, in the main). As a result, for public safety, the only sensible course of action is to get that person away from the public as quickly and as safely as is possible.

But...it doesn't contradict the "innocent until proven guilty" principle at all, because that principle only applies to convictions, and convictions at this level can't be brought by police officers at all.

JerkMoans

Here ya go:

No further action after 'burglar' death http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-43676359

Bellycaster

A lot of good points made @digitalscream .................................................you Twat     Joke....Joke, OK!

I was kind of alluding to the fact that the victim would know "Not to go on Holiday" shall we say. I suppose if someone has actually murdered someone, if they did go into hiding/do a runner or whatever you want to call it, They would be found pretty quickly, but I suppose it cuts out the extra Police Work.

I'd still like to be a Fly on the Wall in the Interview Room though.

digitalscream

JerkMoans said:

Here ya go:

No further action after 'burglar' death http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-43676359

Excellent - by the sounds of it, a good result and exactly the process that should've been followed. As mentioned earlier, though, the poor guy's got to live with the fact that he killed someone; that's not easy, even if you're 100% convinced that it couldn't have gone any other way.

Bellycaster said:

A lot of good points made @digitalscream .................................................you Twat     Joke....Joke, OK!

LOL

Bellycaster

JerkMoans said:

Here ya go:

No further action after 'burglar' death http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-43676359

It's good to know he's been found innocent, It'd be even nicer to know exactly what did happen in there...................so I can do exactly the same if I'm ever face with it 

usedtobe

The guy’s drinking not one, but two pints of Guinness, there! That’s all I need to know about him!

Chalky

The "Met has lost control of the streets" story is alongside the "no further action on the 78 year old" story.  Coincidence?  Er, no.

BloodEagle

Chalky said:

The "Met has lost control of the streets" story is alongside the "no further action on the 78 year old" story.  Coincidence?  Er, no.

Conclusion - They should send that 78 yr old out onto the streets armed with a screwdriver as some kind of geriatric vigilante/executioner 

hobbio

TheMarlin

BloodEagle said:

Chalky said:

The "Met has lost control of the streets" story is alongside the "no further action on the 78 year old" story.  Coincidence?  Er, no.

Conclusion - They should send that 78 yr old out onto the streets armed with a screwdriver as some kind of geriatric vigilante/executioner 

No.  Conclusion is to hire one to guard your home!

TheMarlin

usedtobe said:

The guy’s drinking not one, but two pints of Guinness, there! That’s all I need to know about him!

If I saw him down the pub, i’d buy him 4 pints!!!

Flink_Poyd

Sounds like a real piece of work along with a few others in his family.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/career-crook-killed-by-pensioner-didnt-deserve-to-die-say-family/ar-AAvwAfB?li=BBoPWjQ

Pensioners dont deserve to be ripped off for their life savings and live in fear either. My sympathy gauge is firmly on empty for him, the only ones I feel sorry for are his children

goldtop said:

And when it's the unfortunate chap next door, who got really sh1tfaced this time, got the wrong house, couldn't get the key to work and decided to climb in through a window - just one of those things?

Escalating vigilante justice element to fix the failures of the criminal justice system is going to create collateral damage. Who provides justice for those victims?

Poppycock.