Axe_FX II Rigs, or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Digital Modelling.

Drew_TNBD

octatonic said:

Drew, 

Make sure you use the right cables for 4 cable method.

I've not done it for ages but there is something called 'hum buster' built into it.

I think you have to use a couple of TRS->TS cables to get it to work.

Yeah saw that in the manual. Been poring over it all day!

octatonic said:

Drew_fx said:

Si_ said:

Clarky said:

also.. you do know that having the Axe set up via the 4CM will essentially prevent you from using the amp models..

cos you'll effectively be playing a preamp through a preamp.. which may be a bit odd..

so you'll end up with the Axe behaving more like a G-System or something similar with that setup

I was planning on using mine with the 4CM, I didn't know that it would all still go through the Amp's Pre-Amp, i assumed you could set it up to bypass that.. disappointing if you can't  I thought the pre-amp of the Amp would effectively act like a block in the layout that can be cut in or out, although I admit I've not looked into it properly yet

That is how it works with the Boss GT and the Pod HD, so I don't see why it wouldn't with the AF2.

Sort of.

You need to use a block called the 'FX Loop' to get it to work and just avoid using an Amp block in those patches.

The signal flow is as follows:

Axe FX IN -> before preamp fx (in the axe fx) -> FX Loop Block out (to output 2) -> Guitar amp in-> Amp FX loop send -> Axe FX input 2 (return of the FX Loop block) -> post preamp fx (i.e. delays etc in the Axe FX) -> Axe FX Output 1 -> Amp FX return -> Speaker

This looks pretty complex but once you do it a couple of times it is pretty easy.

Essentially you use the second set out IO (Output 2 and Input 2) as an FX loop in the FX loop of a hardware amp.

Confused?

Nah not confusing. All I meant was, on the Pod... if you have the FX loop in the chain, you get your real amp. If you turn it off, and put an amp sim in the chain, you get the amp sim. I assumed the AF2 would be the same?? Doesn't affect me much if not, but might affect Si.

Si_

octatonic said:

Drew_fx said:

Si_ said:

Clarky said:

also.. you do know that having the Axe set up via the 4CM will essentially prevent you from using the amp models..

cos you'll effectively be playing a preamp through a preamp.. which may be a bit odd..

so you'll end up with the Axe behaving more like a G-System or something similar with that setup

I was planning on using mine with the 4CM, I didn't know that it would all still go through the Amp's Pre-Amp, i assumed you could set it up to bypass that.. disappointing if you can't  I thought the pre-amp of the Amp would effectively act like a block in the layout that can be cut in or out, although I admit I've not looked into it properly yet

That is how it works with the Boss GT and the Pod HD, so I don't see why it wouldn't with the AF2.

Sort of.

You need to use a block called the 'FX Loop' to get it to work and just avoid using an Amp block in those patches.

The signal flow is as follows:

Axe FX IN -> before preamp fx (in the axe fx) -> FX Loop Block out (to output 2) -> Guitar amp in-> Amp FX loop send -> Axe FX input 2 (return of the FX Loop block) -> post preamp fx (i.e. delays etc in the Axe FX) -> Axe FX Output 1 -> Amp FX return -> Speaker

This looks pretty complex but once you do it a couple of times it is pretty easy.

Essentially you use the second set out IO (Output 2 and Input 2) as an FX loop in the FX loop of a hardware amp.

Confused?

Yea, that's what I thought. so you can use an amp block and modelling by just having a patch without the FX Loop block to bypass the amp pre-amp all together. Or, couldn't you hav e2 runs in 1 patch, one with the FX loop block, one without to get the best of both worlds?

So for example, I can have 1 patch that can switch between using the Amp Pre, or a Modelled Amp via a scene? (Clean modelled, Rhythm real amp, lead real amp, + other scenes with other modelled amps).

Or is this not possible? 

Clarky

Drew_fx said:

Clarky, quick question - can scene changes send out program changes to another midi device, or can only preset changes do that?

I got these answers from Fractal

- The MFC. You would set your IAs for scenes select to general use then you can send up to 2 CCs, 1 PC change, and one System Exclusive Message w/ 1 IA button.

- You can turn on MIDI THRU on the Axe-fx and use the MIDI out from the Axe-fx.

back to me now: so yes.. you can do it all

connect the MFC to the Axe via ethernet or FASLINK, and then connect the Axe to the other device via a regular MIDI cable.

hit an IA switch on the MFC to switch scene in the Axe and simultaneously change preset in another device..

Handsome_Chris

Drew_fx said:

Right. Presumably that would work with a FCB1010 until someone *cough*possiblyme*cough* can afford the MFC.

Yes. Depending what you want out of life, the FCB may serve you well enough not to need the MFC.

Clarky

I think your choice of controller unit really depends upon the control functionality you think you're going to need

I personally found that scenes on their own didn't give me quite enough control.. you can turn things on / off and flip X-Y, but you can for example pan things.. and this is where the 2nd CC command comes up trumps

so if you think that scenes will be enough, you'll be able to use pretty much any controller.. if you want presets that have more slick functionality, you'll need a controller that can at the very least send 2 CC commends..

Drew_TNBD

Um... *incoming*

Guess I'll have to start my own thread in a week or so!

I'm pretty set on getting the MFC. I want to get one of those, a Mission Engineering expression pedal with switch, for the wah, my Ernie Ball as an expression pedal for volume, and possibly add another one for preset-specific weirdness that I can fade in; things like cranking the delay feedback and what not. Add in my Boss switch for tap tempo, plug it all into the MFC jack inputs, then the connection cable for the MFC to the Axe FX. Job done!

But I'll have to wait a month to get the MFC, or sell my pedals in advance - which is risky business.

octatonic

Drew_fx said:

Um... *incoming*

Ha!

Drew_fx said:

I'm pretty set on getting the MFC. I want to get one of those, a Mission Engineering expression pedal with switch, for the wah, my Ernie Ball as an expression pedal for volume, and possibly add another one for preset-specific weirdness that I can fade in; things like cranking the delay feedback and what not. Add in my Boss switch for tap tempo, plug it all into the MFC jack inputs, then the connection cable for the MFC to the Axe FX. Job done!

But I'll have to wait a month to get the MFC, or sell my pedals in advance - which is risky business.

Wait.

You have a nice collection of pedals and if it doesn't work for you then you'll have to buy them all back.

It will take you a bit of time to get to grips with the AFX anyway.

I doubt you'll be happy to gig it the week after getting it, although anything is possible.

Si_

you could probably have bought mine in a few weeks

How are you planning on running it? 4cm? power amp? through your valve amp?

Drew_TNBD

octatonic;220323" said:
Wait.You have a nice collection of pedals and if it doesn't work for you then you'll have to buy them all back.It will take you a bit of time to get to grips with the AFX anyway.I doubt you'll be happy to gig it the week after getting it, although anything is possible.

Yeah I guess it would make sense to wait, although these days my pedals aren't really all that special. Boss and Hardwire mainly!

I think once I have the MFC, I'll be able to at least get my tones that I need for our existing songs quite easily, just using scenes and the effects. That wont take me much time at all, because the effect settings are pretty basic and I've transferred from device to device with ease. It's the amp modelling that will take me time to get used to using; though I'm not initially planning to use any of that in a live setting.

Si_ said:

you could probably have bought mine in a few weeks

) I did consider asking but Sussi has sorted me out a good price on a b-stock AF2 MKI model. Talked it over with Jim this morning, and the only difference between the MKI and the MKII is the ethercon connection, of which there is a friendly enough workaround by using adapters. I'm not too worried about the stuff that comes with the XL version, and the difference between the MKI and MKII isn't worth an extra £400 to me!! That's almost an MFC right there!

How are you planning on running it? 4cm? power amp? through your valve amp?

Well Jim thinks I should at least try the preamps going into the poweramp of my Diezel D-Moll. I am rather curious, so I will give that go. But the main intention is to run it in 4cm with my D-Moll, and just use the Axe for effects only. In the Axe it'd be something like this:

Volume (always on) (Expression pedal 1)
Wah (bypassable) (Expression pedal 2, and switch 1)
Drive block - Only if I need it and can get a convincing low-gain tubescreamer sound.
PEQ block - Bit of finetuning of the tone going to the amp

Effects in front of the Diezel D-Moll:

Phaser - X set to a fast small stone style sound Y set to a slow Phase 90 style sound
Delay 1 - Set to reverse mode, sync'd to a quarter note, mix around 20%
Delay 2 - Set to mono mode, sync'd to a quarter note, mix around 25%
Reverb 1 - Set to hall mode, sounding as close to my sound as I can get it

[DIEZEL D-MOLL PREAMP]

Post D-Moll effects:

Gate - Tame the noise of the amp, hopefully without cutting off notes!

PEQ block - Some post EQ, depending on what I fancy really and what works for the tones.

Volume - Switchable, so I can do swells after the D-Moll gain.

Multi Delay - Set to quad tap, with the levels for 2+3+4 all turned off so it's effectively a regular delay pedal.

Reverb 2 - I'm not 100% sure what I want this to sound like. I think I want to try a ridiculously long reverb tail, with a good amount of roll-off on the low frequencies, and some ducking using the main incoming guitar signal as the key.

Anyway.. that's all kinda on-paper and off the top of my head. I'll have totally different presets for recording purposes. But for live use I don't care about stereo effects, I don't care about compression, pitch effects, chorus, or overt use of modifiers. But for recording might be a different story.

You guys might be wondering why the change of heart, since recently I said I didn't see the point of the AF2 in my particular setup. Well, apart from gas, I really want to simplify my tap dancing routine and my floor setup. Totally happy with the amp. I want a wider range of effects, without the extra cabling, power, and floor space. Did a gig recently in a little pub where just putting the MFC on the ground would've really freed up some of the floor space around me for er.. the other two stringed instruments in the band!! So it's a combination of things really. I've managed to justify the expense from a variety of different angles.

Plus GAS.



As an aside, threads like this make me think we need a digital + modelling forum here. Wonder what @Digitalscream @TTony and @Monquixote think of that ?

Si_

Drew_fx said:

) I did consider asking but Sussi has sorted me out a good price on a b-stock AF2 MKI model. Talked it over with Jim this morning, and the only difference between the MKI and the MKII is the ethercon connection, of which there is a friendly enough workaround by using adapters. I'm not too worried about the stuff that comes with the XL version, and the difference between the MKI and MKII isn't worth an extra £400 to me!! That's almost an MFC right there!

I did the same thing and probably got the same deal.

Drew_TNBD

Thinking about it.... why bother getting a Mission Engineering pedal. Surely I can find an old knackered Crybaby and make one myself. I know how to do the switch bit. Less sure on how to do the expression pedal bit.

Si_

I got an old cheap Bespeco pedal and it's much better than my Boss one.. smaller too

Drew_TNBD

Yeah I looked at those. But I do like the travel and the big CLUNK of the switches on the Crybaby's and Budda wahs. I aint gutting my budda wah to do it though!

Si_

What do you need the toe switch for? I always had my Wah on automatic activation.

Drew_TNBD

Si_ said:

What do you need the toe switch for? I always had my Wah on automatic activation.

I do a fair amount of parked wah and really slow sweep stuff, and I've seen a couple of reports saying that the auto activate thing isn't so good for that.

Drew_TNBD

(Sorry for the hijack!)

Clarky

Drew - I used to like the "toe switch" thing with the wah - given that I've always used a real Crybaby with my previous fx-units..

a while back though I decided to try out auto engage with one of my Boss FV-500 pedals... and I totally fell in love with it..

performance wise it is absolutely superb.. intuitive to use, immediate in the wah it engages / disengages..

I liked it so much I immediated ordered another FV-500.. and now I'd never go back to a toe-switch wah..

so now I use 3 FV-500 pedals

XP1 = volume [which I always place as the first block in the fx chain]

XP2 = tone morphing

XP3 = wah

Drew_TNBD

I should at least give it a go it sounds like then! Can you comfortably do parked wah and slow sweeps with your settings? I'm not much of a shaft-funky-wah type of guy. I basically use it like synths filter if you like.

digitalscream

Drew_fx said:

As an aside, threads like this make me think we need a digital + modelling forum here. Wonder what @Digitalscream @TTony and @Monquixote think of that ?

Aside from chuckling at the last couple of pages of your posts (you know why), I'm thinking this could be a good idea. It's always a problem when you want to discuss the Axe, Eleven, POD etc.

Question is...is there enough discussion of digital/modelling gear (not just a few big threads) that would justify it? The last thing we want is an empty category, and even worse would be more confusion. Where, for example, would a new thread about the Zoom G3 sit? FX? Digital/modelling? Worst case is that it dilutes the existing FX and Amp categories...

While I'm in here...any of you rack reprobates got a 1U or 2U <10kg power amp going for less than £300? If so, see my thread over in the classifieds, please...

Drew_TNBD

)

Aye... I'll stop giving you a hard time about your new 11R now