Yaron vs Bartlett vs Morgan vs The Stig vs Gibson R9 vs etc...

Ossyrocks

I have owned half a dozen historics, the best two were 2014 models.

I have compared a Bartlett and a Terry Morgan side by side and preferred the TM, and the Bartlett was more expensive too.

The TM I have is the best Les Paul I have ever owned for tone, feel and general vibe. I have played six original bursts and I think mine compares very favourably.

I have also played a couple of TM’s which I wouldn’t take over mine, but would be happy to own. I suppose all guitars vary, and you just need the one which speaks to you.

Rob.

soma1975

I wish Gibson would have one traditional (PAFs, 50s wiring etc)  and one modern version (Burstbucker Pros, Modern wiring with taps/phase switches, improved cutaway for access etc) of each of their guitars. Plus some custom shop business.

And that's it. 

sweepy

How many of us have owned or still do a complete dogs breakfast of a guitar that sounds and plays perfectly. It’s great fun to watch these obsessive people but it can very easily become a case of disappearing up ones sphincter chasing a tone that never actually existed in the first place 

fretfinder

p90fool said: Surely the list of replicas you've already owned far outweighs the value of a 50s Goldtop already?  

I didn’t own them all at the same time! 

hotpickups said:

Do you guys who own these very very expensive replicas ever gig them?

I gigged each of my Terry Morgans and my Murphys, before I decided to move them on.

guitars4you said: My personal favourite is a 57 Tom Murphy Gold Top that I've owned for over 10 years - I've played a fair few replicas that are as good and can match it, but to be honest the more talk I hear about replica R7/8/9's and the pursuit of perfection, then the more I'm unclear as to what perfection actually is - There are many fine R7/8/9's out there

Much wis in your post Mark, and at the end there I assume you mean ‘Gibson’ R7/8/9s and I totally agree!

p90fool

Haha @fretfinder I knew that sounded kind of stupid as soon as I posted it

I guess If I hadn't bought all those guitar strings over the last 40 years I could easily afford the guitar of my dreams.

fretfinder

I guess one of the tricky issues is how does the ‘value for money’ compare between the different Gibsons and replicas. Is the difference between the price of a good R9 and a Yaron justified, ie is the latter worth 3-4 times as much? Personally if I was in that price bracket I’d probably try to find the extra for a good 50s conversion, which would be a much better investment in the long run I reckon.

Gibson R9 from approx £3k
Gibson Murphy R9 £4.5k
Gibson TH R9 £5k
Gibson TH Murphy £6k
Guitar Avenue replica £6k
Terry Morgan replica £7k
Bartlett £7k
Yaron ‘replica’ (no Gibson logo and no open book headstock ) £10k
50s conversion £15k

NB: These are just my ROUGH ideas of APPROXIMATE values, trying to be REALISTIC about sale prices actually achieved in the used market. Could be more in the real world, depending on the guitar. No doubt many will disagree, some violently, but it’s a starting point!

OK, valuation floodgates now open... 

brooom

Supply and demand, in the end they are worth whatever people are willing to pay for them. There's always a reason why things are worth whatever they're worth. If everyone agrees with it or not, that's a different story.

If I really like a guitar, I sometimes don't mind overpaying, others might disagree, but as it is my money...

guitars4you

fretfinder said:

guitars4you said: My personal favourite is a 57 Tom Murphy Gold Top that I've owned for over 10 years - I've played a fair few replicas that are as good and can match it, but to be honest the more talk I hear about replica R7/8/9's and the pursuit of perfection, then the more I'm unclear as to what perfection actually is - There are many fine R7/8/9's out there

Much wis in your post Mark, and at the end there I assume you mean ‘Gibson’ R7/8/9s and I totally agree!

yes Gibson R7/8/9's - interesting post and comments again

Ossyrocks

Just for info: The last Terry Morgan I played earlier this year was a '58 Goldtop replica and the guy had paid £7500 which was agreed by those present to be the "going rate". 

MikeC

I’m the very happy owner of a dave Johnson replica ( after he left historic makeovers and before he worked for marks loft). Very very happy, better than any modern gibson I’ve tried. But not tried a real vintage one or a conversion to compare it to. 

fretfinder

Ossyrocks said:

Just for info: The last Terry Morgan I played earlier this year was a '58 Goldtop replica and the guy had paid £7500 which was agreed by those present to be the "going rate". 

My Terry Morgans were both Bursts and they were sold by a dealer who got them some time after me for £7k and £8k iirc, hence my estimate. £7.5k for a TM Goldtop sounds high to me and there was one on here a couple of years ago that, I think, went for £4K ish. But there’s so few that come onto the market that it’s hard to assess what the ‘going rate’ is, or even if there is one!

MikeC said:

I’m the very happy owner of a dave Johnson replica ( after he left historic makeovers and before he worked for marks loft). Very very happy, better than any modern gibson I’ve tried. But not tried a real vintage one or a conversion to compare it to. 

Interesting. I didn't know DJ made actual replicas, I thought he just did Historic refinishes, recarves, replacement boards etc. You learn something knew every day! 

guitars4you

MikeC said:

I’m the very happy owner of a dave Johnson replica ( after he left historic makeovers and before he worked for marks loft). Very very happy, better than any modern gibson I’ve tried. But not tried a real vintage one or a conversion to compare it to. 

I've heard his name, mainly via Mark's Guitar Loft but not seen one in the flesh but reports are on the good side

peteri

Bridgehouse said:

Garthy said:

The wood wasn't 60 years old when the originals were built. I'd rather just have the best available than a replica of something old and I can't imagine many industries where there has been no progress at all since 1959.

That's not strictly true - some of the Honduran mahogany that Gibson had stockpiled would have been felled in the late 19th century and imported with the rest of their stocks when they were building huge numbers of mandolins in the 1910's and 1920's. The mahogany stocks would have air dried over that time and been very light and very resonant by the late 1950's. I believe they ran out in the mid 60's..

One of the most common topics I got at the jam yesterday when people picked up my 53 Les Paul 'wow it's light' - which would back this up

Bridgehouse

peteri said:

Bridgehouse said:

Garthy said:

The wood wasn't 60 years old when the originals were built. I'd rather just have the best available than a replica of something old and I can't imagine many industries where there has been no progress at all since 1959.

That's not strictly true - some of the Honduran mahogany that Gibson had stockpiled would have been felled in the late 19th century and imported with the rest of their stocks when they were building huge numbers of mandolins in the 1910's and 1920's. The mahogany stocks would have air dried over that time and been very light and very resonant by the late 1950's. I believe they ran out in the mid 60's..

One of the most common topics I got at the jam yesterday when people picked up my 53 Les Paul 'wow it's light' - which would back this up

The Epiphone Olympic I had was a slab of such stuff and weighted under 5lbs dripping wet.

One of these days I’ll find an equivalent 60s Epiphone bass...

Danielsguitars

There's also examples of 10lb 50's goldtops

It's just not consistent imo to say it's all light weight,  I'd say the ones I've played are around 8.8lb ish,  that's 54, 56 and 58 

The customs seem to be the same all over the place too

WezV

customkits said:

There's also examples of 10lb 50's goldtops

It's just not consistent imo to say it's all light weight,  I'd say the ones I've played are around 8.8lb ish,  that's 54, 56 and 58 

The customs seem to be the same all over the place too

Yup.   They certainly had good wood back then ... but it wasn’t always super light.  I do think the average weight was lighter than today.  They averaged 8.5-9 without weight relief.  Today the average would be at leat 1lb heavier

you have to remember they had the pick of the forest when that wood was felled.  They will have gone for the biggest straightest trees they could handle.

my own theory/speculation is that the wood being used was closer to waterways.  higher moisture content when alive leads to bigger cells and a lighter timber once dry... the same as swamp ash.

We know it was bloody big trees and we know they get transported by river.  Logic suggests they will have got the ones closest to the river first.... and they will have been the lightest.

Danielsguitars

WezV said:

customkits said:

There's also examples of 10lb 50's goldtops

It's just not consistent imo to say it's all light weight,  I'd say the ones I've played are around 8.8lb ish,  that's 54, 56 and 58 

The customs seem to be the same all over the place too

Yup.   They certainly had good wood back then ... but it wasn’t always super light.  I do think the average weight was lighter than today.  They averaged 8.5-9 without weight relief.  Today the average would be at leat 1lb heavier

you have to remember they had the pick of the forest when that wood was felled.  They will have gone for the biggest straightest trees they could handle.

my own theory/speculation is that the wood being used was closer to waterways.  higher moisture content when alive leads to bigger cells and a lighter timber once dry... the same as swamp ash.

We know it was bloody big trees and we know they get transported by river.  Logic suggests they will have got the ones closest to the river first.... and they will have been the lightest.

I agree todays stuff is generally heavier,  i try not to make anything over 9lb for a solid but that makes me very picky with blank weights, I've been lucky with scoring proper old big tree mahogany that comes out at a good weight and constantly hunt round for light mahogany 

The trouble with us is we got spoilt playing nice old ones 

stuagu

Interesting thread, there was one comment that you need the bark and the leaf to identify the species of tree, if this is true how do cites or whoever know  when any guitar coming thru has the dreaded brazilian rosewood on it. Now i can make a pretty good guess what brazilian or not by sight as i have some experience but i wouldnt say id be 100% sure how could a guitar be seized/ destroyed unless theyre a 100% sure? Or do they go on serial numbers from shipments ( of which apparently theyre not 100% accurate
... sorry if its off topic or a stupid question  

Lodious

The threads on vintage guitars have put me off buying anything old, this is putting me off buying a reissue. Life was so much easier when you bought a guitar because you liked it. 

Bridgehouse

Lodious said:

The threads on vintage guitars have put me off buying anything old, this is putting me off buying a reissue. Life was so much easier when you bought a guitar because you liked it. 

Find a vintage reissue that you like... simples