Yaron vs Bartlett vs Morgan vs The Stig vs Gibson R9 vs etc...

Jez6345789

I love the better reproductions like the Yaron on here, If I had 11k spare would have jumped on it. 

None of these will ever be 100% Burst as they are repro and there is a lot of variance in bursts

if Yarons are good then its a way for the rest of us that will never afford the stupid money originals go for, to wet our beak. 

As for Gibsons I could not justify the authentic money there have been a few nice R9's from time to time that have caught my eye but I am happy with me Greco for now.

shaunm

I’ve only read the OP’s first post and I only have one thought

@frerfinder are you sure Les Pauls are for you? You keep selling them. 

Really though, I don’t think there is a best builder because of the inconsistencies in wood. That’s not that one builder isn’t more talented than another but just that it’s out of their control. 

Vintage guitars..... it’s not for me. I don’t buy into the hype. Record one picked at random vs a new one picked and random and you’d never hear a difference. Maybe it would be different if you find the best example of each but I doubt it.

Strangefan

Very interesting thread, and for me very alien, so do we think this type of guitar is going to start to fade in popularity and price when the guys from the 60s etc start to die off? Bands like megadeth / Metallica who are already looked upon as classic metal all use esp and Jackson, they are the influence to the next gen of money rich 40 to 50 year olds.

Where is that going to leave "period accurate plastic"? Not for me to answer as I have no interest in 59 les Paul's but I would love to know what the future holds for not only the meticulous replicas but  the originals as well,    we all know deep down a guitar sounds like a guitar, yes some better than others, granted...... So does where does the value lie? 

Danielsguitars

I personally think there will be a fairly strong market for bursts and replicas,  a lot of people have gone to replicas after having gibsons, even burst owners have replicas not gibsons

The value is up to the individuals paying out the money,  there are lots of younger players wanting them not the 60 yr olds

One young guy i know sold a vintage 60's SG so he could buy the replica and he's very happy 

Danielsguitars

stuagu said:

Interesting thread, there was one comment that you need the bark and the leaf to identify the species of tree, if this is true how do cites or whoever know  when any guitar coming thru has the dreaded brazilian rosewood on it. Now i can make a pretty good guess what brazilian or not by sight as i have some experience but i wouldnt say id be 100% sure how could a guitar be seized/ destroyed unless theyre a 100% sure? Or do they go on serial numbers from shipments ( of which apparently theyre not 100% accurate
... sorry if its off topic or a stupid question  

Kew Gardens asked the head of merton college musical instrument making if he could identify species and that's what he said, i went there to learn guitar making

Keith makes and repairs violins and he's been teaching there along time,  well over 30 yrs

You can't simply look at something and say 100% it's this or that imo

Cites are only interested in paperwork, they probably know it's come from a tree nothing more

sweepy

The biggest hurdle with having a guitar made for you is that you are locked into it. it may be to your specs etc but that does not necessarily mean its a good guitar and when its finished and then you are saddled with an expensive wall hanger with crippling depreciation

hotpickups

sweepy said:

The biggest hurdle with having a guitar made for you is that you are locked into it. it may be to your specs etc but that does not necessarily mean its a good guitar and when its finished and then you are saddled with an expensive wall hanger with crippling depreciation

One just has to have conviction in your choices of spec and never think of buying to move it on someday. Why would you if it's how you like it. A guitar built by a quality craftsman / luthier who knows about wood choices etc it won't ever be a bad guitar

One hopes anyway lol

TA22GT

sweepy said:

The biggest hurdle with having a guitar made for you is that you are locked into it. it may be to your specs etc but that does not necessarily mean its a good guitar and when its finished and then you are saddled with an expensive wall hanger with crippling depreciation

That is very true.

I think whenever you have any guitar made for you that is always going to be the case. You have to find the right builder, be familiar with his work and his attitude to it and of course his skills as a luthier.

I started by having a neck made for a Tele. It was superb so I had a full Tele made and that was superb too. Then a Junior and a couple of Strats.
I knew he had a way of making great instruments and not just look-alike- guitars so I had a 59 replica made and then a second but with a few tweaks to suit me.  All of my guitars have his name on them. He deserves not to be hidden behind a decal. I've never looked back.

Value? Depends on the instrument. I agree to most people it's just a copy and only a few will appreciate its true value.

I don't ever purchase anything in my life with a view to "what will it be worth in a few years" , I buy it because of the value I place on it there and then.

IvisonGuitars

TA22GT said:

sweepy said:

The biggest hurdle with having a guitar made for you is that you are locked into it. it may be to your specs etc but that does not necessarily mean its a good guitar and when its finished and then you are saddled with an expensive wall hanger with crippling depreciation

That is very true.

I think whenever you have any guitar made for you that is always going to be the case. You have to find the right builder, be familiar with his work and his attitude to it and of course his skills as a luthier.

I started by having a neck made for a Tele. It was superb so I had a full Tele made and that was superb too. Then a Junior and a couple of Strats.
I knew he had a way of making great instruments and not just look-alike- guitars so I had a 59 replica made and then a second but with a few tweaks to suit me.  All of my guitars have his name on them. He deserves not to be hidden behind a decal. I've never looked back.

Value? Depends on the instrument. I agree to most people it's just a copy and only a few will appreciate its true value.

I don't ever purchase anything in my life with a view to "what will it be worth in a few years" , I buy it because of the value I place on it there and then.

Who is ‘he’ out of interest?

TA22GT

miserneil said:

TA22GT said:

sweepy said:

The biggest hurdle with having a guitar made for you is that you are locked into it. it may be to your specs etc but that does not necessarily mean its a good guitar and when its finished and then you are saddled with an expensive wall hanger with crippling depreciation

That is very true.

I think whenever you have any guitar made for you that is always going to be the case. You have to find the right builder, be familiar with his work and his attitude to it and of course his skills as a luthier.

I started by having a neck made for a Tele. It was superb so I had a full Tele made and that was superb too. Then a Junior and a couple of Strats.
I knew he had a way of making great instruments and not just look-alike- guitars so I had a 59 replica made and then a second but with a few tweaks to suit me.  All of my guitars have his name on them. He deserves not to be hidden behind a decal. I've never looked back.

Value? Depends on the instrument. I agree to most people it's just a copy and only a few will appreciate its true value.

I don't ever purchase anything in my life with a view to "what will it be worth in a few years" , I buy it because of the value I place on it there and then.

Who is ‘he’ out of interest?

I doubt he would make another replica.

hotpickups

TA22GT said:

miserneil said:

TA22GT said:

sweepy said:

The biggest hurdle with having a guitar made for you is that you are locked into it. it may be to your specs etc but that does not necessarily mean its a good guitar and when its finished and then you are saddled with an expensive wall hanger with crippling depreciation

That is very true.

I think whenever you have any guitar made for you that is always going to be the case. You have to find the right builder, be familiar with his work and his attitude to it and of course his skills as a luthier.

I started by having a neck made for a Tele. It was superb so I had a full Tele made and that was superb too. Then a Junior and a couple of Strats.
I knew he had a way of making great instruments and not just look-alike- guitars so I had a 59 replica made and then a second but with a few tweaks to suit me.  All of my guitars have his name on them. He deserves not to be hidden behind a decal. I've never looked back.

Value? Depends on the instrument. I agree to most people it's just a copy and only a few will appreciate its true value.

I don't ever purchase anything in my life with a view to "what will it be worth in a few years" , I buy it because of the value I place on it there and then.

Who is ‘he’ out of interest?

I doubt he would make another replica.

Never heard of him. I'll have to check him out too Won't be buying though that's for sure 

TA22GT

Not much to check out but don't be wasting his time if you have already made your mind up you are not interested. I'm sure he gets enough of that. 

hotpickups

TA22GT said:

Not much to check out but don't be wasting his time if you have already made your mind up you are not interested. I'm sure he gets enough of that. 

I'll only be looking online  But come to think about it I think I spoke to him about a build around 12 years ago that I never went through with. 

breadfan

TA22GT said:

Not much to check out but don't be wasting his time if you have already made your mind up you are not interested. I'm sure he gets enough of that. 

Yes & don't repeatedly ask him the same questions, especially after he's already given comprehensive answers. 

fretfinder

breadfan said:

TA22GT said:

Not much to check out but don't be wasting his time if you have already made your mind up you are not interested. I'm sure he gets enough of that. 

Yes & don't repeatedly ask him the same questions, especially after he's already given comprehensive answers. 

Ok, which one of you is Mr Dearnaley? 

FelineGuitars

miserneil said:

WezV said:

customkits said:

They still used African mahogany but people keep banging on about honduran this braz that, the bean counters just bought wood simple as that,  clive brown refinished a 56 that was African mahogany and that can't be the only one

Cocobolo has been found on some 50's ones apparently which is very possible,  i care more about seasoned wood at a reasonable weight

They weren't all featherlight either

Exactly.   I think all the woods I listed have been reported on 50’s Gibson’s.  Some verified, some not.  

There is no magic combo.... just sensible choices they made in the 50’s and slightly altered sensible choices to achieve the same thing now 

Wis for both of you. I was reading the epic Yaron thread the other day and in it he mentions that Bharat Kandahar (aka OTPG) took some samples of wood taken from 50’s Les Pauls he’d repaired over the years to Kew Gardens lab for analysis and it wasn’t Honduran Mahogany at all but African Khaya. Apparently it also tallies with a sales ledger that Gibson bought a huge stock of African Mahogany in the mid 50’s too. 

We sussed out some while back that the combination of a lighter African mahogany for the body and a denser South American mahogany for the neck is what was going on with a lot of the 1950s Gibsons.

Our 25th Anniversary range has African Khaya bodies and old stock dense South American mahogany for the necks.

The results have been great  sonically.

olafgarten

FelineGuitars said:

miserneil said:

WezV said:

customkits said:

They still used African mahogany but people keep banging on about honduran this braz that, the bean counters just bought wood simple as that,  clive brown refinished a 56 that was African mahogany and that can't be the only one

Cocobolo has been found on some 50's ones apparently which is very possible,  i care more about seasoned wood at a reasonable weight

They weren't all featherlight either

Exactly.   I think all the woods I listed have been reported on 50’s Gibson’s.  Some verified, some not.  

There is no magic combo.... just sensible choices they made in the 50’s and slightly altered sensible choices to achieve the same thing now 

Wis for both of you. I was reading the epic Yaron thread the other day and in it he mentions that Bharat Kandahar (aka OTPG) took some samples of wood taken from 50’s Les Pauls he’d repaired over the years to Kew Gardens lab for analysis and it wasn’t Honduran Mahogany at all but African Khaya. Apparently it also tallies with a sales ledger that Gibson bought a huge stock of African Mahogany in the mid 50’s too. 

We sussed out some while back that the combination of a lighter African mahogany for the body and a denser South American mahogany for the neck is what was going on with a lot of the 1950s Gibsons.

Our 25th Anniversary range has African Khaya bodies and old stock dense South American mahogany for the necks.

The results have been great  sonically.

Could that also be the reason Leo Fender used a dense wood like Maple for the neck and less dense woods like Alder and Ash for the bodies? 

richardhomer

olafgarten said:
Could that also be the reason Leo Fender used a dense wood like Maple for the neck and less dense woods like Alder and Ash for the bodies?

From a ‘structural’ point of view - yes - any sonic benefits were almost certainly incidental.

Leo Fender wanted to make necks without truss rods - as indeed he did with the very earliest Broadcasters. There’s a photo of him standing on a neck to demonstrate how strong they were.

When Paul Reed Smith was chasing a more Gibson-like tone in the early ‘90s, he discovered that shorter, fatter necks made for a ‘bigger’ sounding guitar - hence the 22 fret Wide/Fat profile on the Custom 22 and McCarty models that were introduced in that period.

JayGee

Strangefan said:

Very interesting thread, and for me very alien, so do we think this type of guitar is going to start to fade in popularity and price when the guys from the 60s etc start to die off? Bands like megadeth / Metallica who are already looked upon as classic metal all use esp and Jackson, they are the influence to the next gen of money rich 40 to 50 year olds.

Where is that going to leave "period accurate plastic"? Not for me to answer as I have no interest in 59 les Paul's but I would love to know what the future holds for not only the meticulous replicas but  the originals as well,    we all know deep down a guitar sounds like a guitar, yes some better than others, granted...... So does where does the value lie? 

Remind me, who was it just dropped a bazillion dollars on the Green/Moore ‘burst...?

guitars4you

richardhomer said:

When Paul Reed Smith was chasing a more Gibson-like tone in the early ‘90s, he discovered that shorter, fatter necks made for a ‘bigger’ sounding guitar - hence the 22 fret Wide/Fat profile on the Custom 22 and McCarty models that were introduced in that period.

Again PRS favoured a tight short grain dense mahogany for the neck and a lighter more open grain for the body - as per Jon @FelineGuitars comments above