From Digitalscream & TTony

Jalapeno

The Classified threads are a PITA tbh. 

People don't/can't follow the rules and there's a pervasive sense of entitlement, and outright rudeness when people are pulled up on let's face it minor misdemeanours.

Gagaryn

Understand your position, thanks for all you have done.

impmann

Sad to read. Totally understood.

Its a thankless task - been there, done that (been a forum owner in the past) and sorting out squabbles drains your soul. Factor in that "everyone" is an expert that knows more than you and your faith in human nature is tested... daily.

Thanks guys - you *DID* achieve your goal. Don't ever forget it.

octatonic

Jalapeno said:

The Classified threads are a PITA tbh. 

People don't/can't follow the rules and there's a pervasive sense of entitlement, and outright rudeness when people are pulled up on let's face it minor misdemeanours.

Re the rules- I agree but that isn't really going to change unless the forum changes in some way.

There are other free platforms (other forums, gumtree).
Very few people read the classifieds rules before posting, much in the same way I don't read the iTines user license agreement when I update the application.
Our requirements we mandatory will never be adhered to unless the method for posting is based on a form that has mandatory fields and then once posted people are locked out from deleting content, but that would also make it impossible to adjust content.

So the available option are relax the rules, or change the method for posting to be stricter or live with the current situation.
Alternatively, get rid of the classifieds.

Other forums charge for classifieds postings (Basschat).
I floated this idea a long time ago and it was not considered.
Maybe it is worth considering now?

stickyfiddle

 Might there be value in having a second click-through confirmation whenever someone posts a new thread in a classifieds board? 

Something like:

I confirm 1) my advert has a price, or a trade value or prefered trade items, as applicable; 2) I have not included my actual address or phone number in the ad; 3) I have read and understood the rules (with a link); 4) if I remove content from my ad the ad may be removed; 5) if I give the mods shit about any of this I will be banned
 
YES / NO

I wonder if that might just tidy up some portion of the shit ads, because let’s be honest, nobody *ever* reads rules of a forum (or anywhere else online, tbh), so making it a mandatory step in posting an ad might just get the key bits in front of more people’s eyes?

ToneControl

I think that posting in the classifieds should be for long-standing forumites who have posted a lot of non-sales text

Surely the whole point is to sell things between people who know each other a bit, if it's anonymous strangers who are new, then it's just ebay with no fees and no comeback

Axe_meister

How about some mandatory fields for posting in the classified add.
i.e. Asking Price, Picture uploaded/linked to. 
Only after these have been completed can you proceed (a bit like Gumtree)

octatonic

ToneControl said:

I think that posting in the classifieds should be for long-standing forumites who have posted a lot of non-sales text

Surely the whole point is to sell things between people who know each other a bit, if it's anonymous strangers who are new, then it's just ebay with no fees and no comeback

For local people?

Modellista

digitalscream said:

 middle-aged blokes grouchy at the world because they never made it

Like Dr Frankenstein, digitalscream was disgusted by the monster he'd created.

It's untenable to be the leader of a community whose members one openly holds in contempt.

Having said that, we all owe a debt of gratitude to those who created this place and continue to work to keep the lights on.

The most important part of what TTony has said is that digitalscream will work to keep things running behind the scenes.  If that ever changes we really will be up the creek.

It's also sensible to split responsibilities between indivuduals.  It's not ideal to have only one or two people being creator of the universe, head of state, judge, jury, executioner and policeman, all rolled into one.

To me personally, TTony will always be the spiritual leader of this place.  But said leader doesn't have to actually be around much.  In fact, to be a deity, being absent is virtually a requisite.  He'll be missed, but forever in the ether.

There's regular talk of "if only people behaved better we might get big businesses involved" - well, I personally am not interested in that, and I'm not sure that many people are.  The actual (invariably small) businesses that get directly involved with the forum benefit from a great deal of respect, and if the big names don't want to get involved, who cares?  It's not at all healthy for people to think they have to hold their tongue just because some retailer or other has deigned to post a few advertorials.  

If it was talk of some sort of artist involvement that was being made impossible by some behaviour or other I'd be considerably more concerned.  There are very few semi-pro or pro voices on the forum and it would be a big feather in the forum's cap to improve that situation.  No more quotes like the one at the top should help.

To the two remaining mods - hello.  Thanks.  if you need help, please ask for it well in advance of your nervous breakdown.  I'm sure many will be only too glad to help.

Oh, and one more suggestion.  Start a separate area for Anderton's posts.  And burn it in the pit of hell.

mli3

octatonic said:

.

So the available option are relax the rules, or change the method for posting to be stricter or live with the current situation.
Alternatively, get rid of the classifieds.

agree

Nunogilberto

I fully understand the mods’ decision and wish them all the best. No doubt it can’t be an easy life running a place like this. Despite my occasional moan, I generally enjoy life on the forum. 

Whilst I agree there can be legal implications involved in mud slinging of a personal/factually incorrect nature, I’m not sure I agree with not being able to criticise businesses for fear of the forum losing commercial ties etc - otherwise, we’re starting to sound like Guitarist mag. Plus, a forum should be a place where you can relate a bad buying experience or offer your opinion on a place you’ve had dealings with...

Jalapeno

octatonic said:

Jalapeno said:

The Classified threads are a PITA tbh. 

People don't/can't follow the rules and there's a pervasive sense of entitlement, and outright rudeness when people are pulled up on let's face it minor misdemeanours.

Other forums charge for classifieds postings (Basschat).
I floated this idea a long time ago and it was not considered.
Maybe it is worth considering now?

Believe me this has been considered MANY times - not as easy as you think - somebody has to own the bank account that collects the money

Nunogilberto

As for the classifieds, although I’ve used that section from time to time, it makes no diffference to me whether it stays or not. To be brutally honest, I don’t think an awful lot sells on there these days because it’s the same 100 or so people reading them, and there’s only so much business we can do between ourselves. Plus, buying and selling used stuff has changed as a whole over the last decade, since the advent of Gumtree, EBay (which I know is older still) and Facebook selling pages - the traditional and honest values we all spout about and like to see on the forum (honouring offers/claims of interest, not ripping people off, being nice to deal with etc) have generally been eroded everywhere - people these days want something for nothing as quickly as possible, and the seller is an obstacle in the way of them getting it. I think that’s been evident here as well, judging by some of the recent posts about the classifieds.

guitarfishbay

With the classifieds thing I think a mandatory form to fill out could be the way to go.  Just as a suggestion:

Item:
Brief Description:
Any Modifications:
Any Accessories:
[Pictures]
Price:
Location:
Shipping/Collection:

Jalapeno

Like it !

Fretwired

Jalapeno said:

The Classified threads are a PITA tbh. 

People don't/can't follow the rules and there's a pervasive sense of entitlement, and outright rudeness when people are pulled up on let's face it minor misdemeanours.

You need a 'Buy at your own risk' section. Anyone who fails to list properly finds their listing dumped in the 'Buy at your own risk' section. If someone is happy to buy from a seller who can't be arsed to list it properly then it's caveat emptor. My guess is they won't. You don't need to give an explanation.

RedRabbit

Just on an immediate, practical point - is there a plan to add more mods?  I can only imagine it being a two man team will add to the stress of trying to keep this place in line.

m_c

I can't say I'm surprised to see this, as although I've not been posting that much lately, I've still come across the occasional handbag flinging that's obviously spilled over from other areas.

The big problem is, regardless of the rules, there are always going to be users who'll try everything they can to push the limits of the rules. I've ran forums in the past, and you do need thick skin at times to put up with some of the bullshit.

The legal side is always entertaining as well. I used to love the inevitable emails from company's who thought they could bully to get content they didn't agree with removed. I couldn't be held responsible for what people post in public, and provided what they posted wasn't libellous (I.e. they said why they thought a company/product was a pile of s**t, and not just that it was a pile of s**t), they got told to do one, or see how much it would cost them to get laughed out of court.

I do think there is a lot to be said for implementing a no politics rule, as that area does seem to of spawned an awful lot of bitterness over the past few years.

crunchman

The Classifieds are tricky.  They do drive more traffic to the site - and some of the users who start out in the classifieds do contribute elsewhere.  Obviously as the site gets bigger, that creates it's own problems for the mods, but without new users the forum will probably die.

Some kind of form for the classifieds might help, but someone needs to create that form.  It might not be quite as simple as you would think at first glance, as you would need the facility to edit a post afterwards.  If something sells, or you want to reduce the price, people normally update the first post in thread - which is fine if they don't delete the original information.  You might also want slightly different rules for different areas.  You wouldn't want to force someone to post pictures if they are selling a couple of packs of strings because they have switched gauges.  Maybe pictures are compulsory for items priced over £100, but then that is more complex to code.

The simplest option in the short term might be to create 2 or 3 more mods to spread the workload.  Split the responsibility so that no one individual has to deal with too much of the stuff that goes on.

octatonic

Jalapeno said:

octatonic said:

Jalapeno said:

The Classified threads are a PITA tbh. 

People don't/can't follow the rules and there's a pervasive sense of entitlement, and outright rudeness when people are pulled up on let's face it minor misdemeanours.

Other forums charge for classifieds postings (Basschat).
I floated this idea a long time ago and it was not considered.
Maybe it is worth considering now?

Believe me this has been considered MANY times - not as easy as you think - somebody has to own the bank account that collects the money

Two people become directors of a limited company that has no employees (and therefore no pension/NI requirements).
That business has a shared business account that requires two signatures in order to draw funds down.
It is a bit more complicated now because the people who started it have stepped away but it is possible.

One other thing- several people, including myself, have offered to help out as admins/moderators or even just to help out in a non-official capacity.

Maybe spreading the load a bit more amongst long time members who spend a lot of time here will stop the pressure cooker situation occurring again with yourself and Roland a few years down the line?

Ultimately I want this place to succeed and prosper, not to just exist.
Anything I can do to help out just ask.