Chibson Firebird

TTony

ThePrettyDamned said:

@ttony would it be okay if it had a custom logo and no reference to the g word on it, or any other brand?

I see no problem with that whatsoever. 

 We're not patent/copyright lawyers and are not going to get into an assessment of whether the finer aspects of body shape, headstock design, control knob layout (or whatever) is in breach of a protected copyright.  

However, if it's been given a clearly false logo, then we don't need to be lawyers to be able to call it out as a fake.

If it's been given a custom logo, then it's clearly stating that it's NOT any other brand, so no problem.

AlanP

Hmmmm...

I'm not sure anyone would really wish to answer this in an authoritative manner, but all the same...

I've made several T-style and S-style guitars, and I don't put any logos on the headstock...

...but (for my own amusement as much as anything else), rather than spending £5 on a plain neck-plate, I spend £15 on a Fender branded neckplate that is manufactured by Fender, Fender packaged, and supplied through distribution without any requirement regarding how it may or may not be used....

... and if I offered such a guitar for sale here... (not going to), but any views on this????

TTony

AlanP said:

... and if I offered such a guitar for sale here... (not going to), but any views on this????

Someone would soon tell you that it was over-priced ...

But to answer the actual question you're asking;

Are you selling it as a Fender-manufactured guitar?  No.

Could someone honestly mistake it for being a Fender-manufactured guitar?  No.

So you'd be fine.

There's no more wrong with using a Fender neck plate than there would be to put some original Fender pickups in it (though I can't really imagine why you would), or a Fender original bridge, or (etc).  You'd not be trying to sell the guitar as something that it was not.

guitargeek62

TTony said:

I have to put my modminny hat on here and explain that selling "items that are not what they appear to be" is illegal and can't be done on the forum.

Talking about them is fine, showing pictures of them is fine, but advertising them for sale (however informally) is not.

I couldn't agree more. 

Even if the intention isn't there in selling it as a Chibson, the fact that the logo exists on the guitar in it's present state when offered for sale is enough to make any attempt to sell it illegal. Interestingly, the actual purchase of fraudulent goods seems to be a gray area in UK law, but the sale of them is heavily policed and it's really not worth the risk to this community to allow these sort of sales here.

I wouldn't have been offended had my discussion thread been reported & removed etc because (quite rightfully) I bought a fake and made little secret of the fact. I'm glad that the thread was interesting to enough people to get some value out of it, but it wasn't my intention to encourage further purchases. I admit that I've made little effort to dissuade people from them when they've contacted me, but I also pointed out the risks as I see them, and have highlighted all of the reasons that people shouldn't buy them.

In my mind, Hugh's old JXG fit's into the same category - it's a guitar that could easily be mistaken or sold as a legitimate Fender to an unwary buyer. I'd have been hard-pressed to recognise that one's heritage without taking it apart to be perfectly honest, yet we generally don't consider it to be a fake because it's of higher quality and value than a typical Chender or Chibson! 

Tony's comments are fair enough in that if you have a problem with a post/thread then it's quite easy to report them. We must remember that the mods aren't being paid to run this place for us, and that they're not reading & approving every single post.

Fatfingers

So does that mean no one wants my Not Gibson Firebird With No Truss Rod Cover guitar then?

guitargeek62

Lol, I don't see *that* being much of a problem!

Fatfingers

Cool. Well it's not for sale, obviously. So if anyone out there isn't looking for a guitar that isn't a Gibson Firebird then I'm almost certainly not your man.

Rock 'n' roll.

mart

Fatfingers;234382" said:

Cool. Well it's not for sale, obviously. So if anyone out there isn't looking for a guitar that isn't a Gibson Firebird then I'm almost certainly not your man.

Rock 'n' roll.

So, how much would you not be wanting for it? How many, ahem, nots? 

underdog

mart;234688" said:

Fatfingers;234382" said:Cool. Well it's not for sale, obviously. So if anyone out there isn't looking for a guitar that isn't a Gibson Firebird then I'm almost certainly not your man.



Rock 'n' roll.






So, how much would you not be wanting for it? How many, ahem, nots? 

It cost him £190 which is definatley not what he mentioned he wants back for it because of course it's not being sold, sounds a great deal to me, if he was selling it of course

Fatfingers

Exactly.

mart

underdog said:

It cost him £190 which is definatley not what he mentioned he wants back for it because of course it's not being sold, sounds a great deal to me, if he was selling it of course

I would say I'm not interested in buying it, but, with the way this thread is going, I suspect that'd be taken the wrong way!

Fatfingers

Well if anyone wants to get in touch, why not email me to avoid involving the forum. Will@ppcmag.co.uk

Fatfingers

Oh dear. My for sale post got deleted even though I covered up the name plate and clearly labelled it as a Gibson Firebird copy.

JookyChap

Maybe try without the G word?

TTony

Fatfingers said:

Oh dear. My for sale post got deleted even though I covered up the name plate and clearly labelled it as a Gibson Firebird copy.

We (admins) are currently debating what we should about it.  We've not had to deal with something like this before, so there's no precedent set.

underdog

Surely no different to selling a non fender Strat, or a Tokai ls whatever? As long as the guitar isn't shown to be marked as a Gibson? Not interfering just trying to offer some common sense.

Fatfingers

I fully understand and support the fact that the guys running this need to act within the law. But with the fake bit covered up and my clear labelling I figured it would be okay. I've asked the admin that deleted it whether it would be okay if I actually took the name plate off.

Either way; sorry if I've made things tricky for people. I've been open and honest about it and hoped that would be okay.

TTony

Fatfingers said:

I've been open and honest about it and hoped that would be okay.

That is appreciated.

Our discussion is on-going ...

badlydrawnbanjo

Most folk on here know exactly what this guitar is. I'm sure they will PM @fatfingers on the basis of this thread if they are interested in buying it (not that it's for sale obv's) .

criffel

Hi, thinking of going the same route but very suspicious of the photos versus what is delivered....how did your one turn out?