The Edge - Full Rig Rundown

thegummy

I've realised I've had a bit of a thought fallacy during this thread - I came in in reply to the suggestion that even someone playing basic parts through effects is still a good guitarist if it sounds good and was initially giving examples/opinions based on "if someone does only play basic parts but fx make them sound fancy".

I then blurred the lines, probably bringing in my own preconception about the Edge, and kind of slipped in to thinking that this is definitely all the Edge does when I haven't actually heard enough to know if he does more than that.

E.g. if you bought some fancy guitar multi processor and one of the presets was "the Edge" you'd play a simple arpeggio through it and it would sound like what is seen as the archetypal Edge sound.

I watched the video earlier but it still just sounded like what I expected, I couldn't tell that anything non-basic was being done (and I had to suffer through a U2 song which made me sad lol) but I'd be open minded if there was maybe an expert doing a Youtube video (or any medium) where he actually explained some complex things that the Edge does that I'm unaware of.

Maybe my assumption is wrong that on this forum there are probably dozens of people who could secretly plug in to the Edge's rig and the audience wouldn't be any wiser - but few to none who could do the same for someone like Warren Haynes.

Bridgehouse

@thegummy - I still don't think you're getting my point. Mine might be different to others, but..

You are saying "The Edge -> Plays basic parts only (FX or not) -> Thus not a great guitarist"

I'm saying "The Edge -> writes a guitar part for a song (basic or not, FX or not) -> Contextually fits perfectly and musically works"

My bass playing example can be boiled down to: Fleetwood Mac - The Chain. Iconic. So well written and so musical - contextually perfect. But, it's a basic bass line. It's very simple to play - but a stroke of genius to write it.

There are times when writing bass lines that I ponder over a single note for a bit and make decisions over how it's played. As a writing process as a bass player I enjoy the complexity of thought required.

If anyone else came along they might think the part is dead simple. It probably is. But the simplicity in playing it doesn't equate to the skill in writing it so that it fits and works. 

thegummy

Bridgehouse said:

@thegummy - I still don't think you're getting my point. Mine might be different to others, but..

You are saying "The Edge -> Plays basic parts only (FX or not) -> Thus not a great guitarist"

I'm saying "The Edge -> writes a guitar part for a song (basic or not, FX or not) -> Contextually fits perfectly and musically works"

My bass playing example can be boiled down to: Fleetwood Mac - The Chain. Iconic. So well written and so musical - contextually perfect. But, it's a basic bass line. It's very simple to play - but a stroke of genius to write it.

There are times when writing bass lines that I ponder over a single note for a bit and make decisions over how it's played. As a writing process as a bass player I enjoy the complexity of thought required.

If anyone else came along they might think the part is dead simple. It probably is. But the simplicity in playing it doesn't equate to the skill in writing it so that it fits and works. 

I think that, at least with what you and I are talking about, it boils down to purely the semantics of whether someone is "a great guitar player" or "a great musician who plays the guitar". Since I'm not in the position of handing out a "great guitarist" award, unless you are it's probably a pointless debate at that level  

Curiously, since you mentioned bass, when it comes to bass players my favourite is Pino Paladino and precisely because he always plays the right part for the song rather than anything fancy so it's funny that I consciously feel that way with bassists but differently with guitarists. I suppose it could be because I see bass as just a part that supports a song but I do enjoy some level of guitar virtuosity; I do like simple guitar too but find that often a very technically difficult guitar part can add a lot to the enjoyment of the music, whereas with bass I rarely find that to be true.

Even with my preference for bass players, though, I don't think I could argue with someone who said that, next to Jaco for example, some of the bass players from bands I like shouldn't be considered "great bassists". Again though, that's purely semantics.

I have a hypothetical for you - let's imagine there's a bass line as great as The Chain but let's imagine the band who play the song doesn't have an actual great bass player like John McVie, let's imagine they have a run of the mill bass player. Also let's say that you discover that the bass line was actually written by a songwriter on a piano or synth by someone who has never picked up any kind of guitar. Who in that example would be a great bass player because of it?

RandallFlagg

The bit I struggle to get my head around is how he uses all those different types of guitar without tweaking the amps. I have to adjust my amp with each of my 3 guitars to get the right balance of EQ and gain as they all sound different. How the hell does Edge get his Les Paul to sound right on the same settings as he has set for his Strat?

Voxman

dindude said:

Voxman said:

The Edge doesn't pretend to be a great guitarist - 

See, we’re on the same page with the outcome, but this really winds me up. The Edge IS a great guitarist, that’s the point. He uses the instrument as a true sonic weapon, and has created some iconic guitar moments, which makes him a great guitarist. He may not be a great technician, which is different. 

Certainly he is a world-wide recognised, famous guitarist that has a distinctive sound and uses effects (mainly delays) imaginatively.  You're quite right to distinguish technical ability but even taking all that into account I don't agree that he's a great guitarist. But each of us will assess 'great' differently - sometimes we'll largely agree, other times we won't.  Chuck Berry similarly captured a unique style and sound - I'd certainly classify him as iconic and a great live performer, but IMO he was never a 'great' guitarist. 

For me someone like Mark Knopfler is a great guitarist - he just has such a wonderful touch & feel, and the way his mind works to naturally see playing patterns, riffs, licks etc that covers such a wide range of playing styles.  You just can't compare the Edge to a talent like that...it's not just technical, but there's a real underlying playing ability, & 'magic' there...the track 'Brothers in arms' isn't overly technical - but it just has an aura and atmosphere and feel that's wonderful.

RandallFlagg

So is “great” only to be reserved to players who peel off virtuoso lead lines?

I don't think so. I hear great in rhythm chord work, tone and choice of chords used, and how the playing compliments the song.

That puts some of Paul Weller's playing on many of the tracks with The Jam, Steve Jones work on NMTB, Pete Townsend, Stuart Adamson, Andy Summers (with The Police) among many others including The Edge on the great list for me, albeit for different reasons to Knopfer, Peter Green, Jimmy Page, Andy Timmons etc.

HarrySeven

Voxman said:

For me someone like Mark Knopfler is a great guitarist - he just has such a wonderful touch & feel, and the way his mind works to naturally see playing patterns, riffs, licks etc that covers such a wide range of playing styles.

You just can't compare the Edge to a talent like that...it's not just technical, but there's a real underlying playing ability, & 'magic' there...the track 'Brothers in arms' isn't overly technical - but it just has an aura and atmosphere and feel that's wonderful.

No disrespect intended....but there it is in a nutshell.

a. Firstly, it's about personal preferences and aesthetics. NB. Personally, I wouldn't piss on Mr. K if he was on fire.

b. There is apparently a benchmark by which we (as guitarists) are judged, which is fine...and for the naysayers in this instance, it seems to be about technical skill/ability. Apparently, the Edge doesn't have it. And that leads me on to...

c. Do you need to be technically adept (talent) to make great music and write great songs? Some of the most exciting music I've ever heard was made by people who could barely play (and who were stretched to the utter limit of the - short - elastic of their capabilities).

d. Let's pick a random example - Allan Holdsworth. No doubting his immense knowledge, skill and ability. But Jesus f*cking christ, can you dance to it? Does it move you? How? B     O     R     I     N     G. Or is it? And that segues into...

e. But it also seems to be about 'magic' and aura and atmosphere - right...well, if there's one guitarist who springs to (my) mind in terms of vast, epic soundscapes and "atmosphere", it''s the Edge.

f. And on that topic (as so many have already pointed out) - I'd suggest that in the case of U2/the Edge, it's again all about the song, not whether he can crowbar some flashy fretwankery in.

g. I can remember hearing A Day Without Me when it first came out (1980) and excitedly thinking "WTF is this?!?" Boy was a landmark moment in guitar music - The Joshua Tree cemented that (globally). As a game changer (and it's already been said), it's up there with the first VH album, etc.

h. Finally...going back to Mark Knopfler and his "wide range of playing styles" - I'd suggest that Mr. K's "wide range" is actually within a certain paradigm  - a very well-trodden one at that. He may be immensely popular and highly-regarded, but...innovative? And Brothers in Arms - that '80's CD sound quality-demonstrating slice of bland aural wallpapery? Nah, gimme In God's Country, Pride orThe Electric Co. any day.

I'll get me coat.

stickyfiddle

At this inevitable stage in the thread, I think it's important to note that George Harrison, Pete Townshend and Keith Richards are all terrible guitarists because none of them came up with Eruption or For the Love of God... 

[is there a sarcasm emoji?]

HarrySeven

stickyfiddle said:

At this inevitable stage in the thread, I think it's important to note that George Harrison, Pete Townshend and Keith Richards are all terrible guitarists because none of them came up with Eruption or For the Love of God... 

[is there a sarcasm emoji?]

Have a Wiz for that!

StuartMac290

HarrySeven said:

stickyfiddle said:

At this inevitable stage in the thread, I think it's important to note that George Harrison, Pete Townshend and Keith Richards are all terrible guitarists because none of them came up with Eruption or For the Love of God... 

[is there a sarcasm emoji?]

Have a Wiz for that!

And another. I always find it incredibly depressing when people equate manual dexterity with musical worth.

By any standards the Edge is a GREAT musician. He creates great music on the guitar - by definition that is a great guitarist. Stop counting the notes and listen to the creativity!

Grunfeld

dindude said:

when I was playing in covers bands, any U2 song was the most funnest to play, this being the funnest of the fun...

@dindude -- what delay did you use?*

*I have two delays on my board, but no U2 in our set, and if I were on Freud's couch he'd be saying, "Your mind is now trying to seduce you into GASsing for yet another delay pedal to make up for your inadequate relationship with your mother." 

impmann

There was a comment about plugging in Warren Hayes’ rig earlier.

Tbh, I had to google who he was. I listened to something on YT featuring him. Very impressive blues rock stuff - if you like that sort of thing. And I do and I don’t... you see I looked at what he’d done and thought “hmmm, he’s good at doing *that*, but where’s the originality?”. Arguably his sound (and his ‘rig’) is the same as a vast number of other white blues rock players - and his material is arguably very similar. In fact, to these untrained ears (same as Joe punter) I don’t think I could tell his stuff from the host of other blues rock players who tread well trodden paths.

On the other hand, two or three notes from Edge and you know who he is. No
matter whether he’s doing the dotted repeat thing or playing the intro to the Fly. And the point here is he’s an innovator - and has defined a genre.

You don’t have to be “technically” brilliant to be an innovator - and if you innovate rather than regurgitate then in my mind that lifts you from good to great.

Fwiw, I’m not a U2 fan - but I respect them as being a great bunch of innovative musicians. A lot of “great” guitar players bore me senseless - normally over-play and their material (especially in later years) just becomes a vehicle for them to demonstrate their prowess. I’d far rather listen to three chords played with passion, than a gazillion notes played as a recital - because more often than not, that recital could be ‘anyone’.

Folks have debated who is or isn’t “great” for ever. They’ve even had arguments over who is “the best” - which to me is the dumbest thing in the world. Music is not a competitive sport.

Lemmy once said “music should move you - either to fight, fuck or dance or whatever. If it doesn’t move *you* it’s noise and it’s not for you.”

jimmyguitar

So.......is he good or not? I need closure

Nikc

I love U2 T'Edge is awesome 

I mainly play blues personally Guitar, Screamer and Valve amp for me - T'Edge is still awesome imo

jimmyguitar

Back to the “rig run down” video, what a passionate tech! He seems to genuinely love the Edge and working on his guitars and it’s a great interview.

Bridgehouse

jimmyguitar said:

So.......is he good or not? I need closure

Still not found what you’re looking for, huh?

guitars4you

impmann said:

You don’t have to be “technically” brilliant to be an innovator 

Fwiw, I’m not a U2 fan - but I respect them as being a great bunch of innovative musicians. A lot of “great” guitar players bore me senseless - normally over-play and their material (especially in later years) just becomes a vehicle for them to demonstrate their prowess. I’d far rather listen to three chords played with passion, than a gazillion notes played as a recital - because more often than not, that recital could be ‘anyone’.

Folks have debated who is or isn’t “great” for ever. They’ve even had arguments over who is “the best” - which to me is the dumbest thing in the world. Music is not a competitive sport.

very valid

also many 'great virtuosso' players have close to zero appeal to a mass market - for what ever reason that might be - No matter if you like The Edge or Jack White etc, the MI industry needs such artists to generate interest in the next generation of potential  guitar players/buyers 

Maybe somewhat of a general statement, but the likes of The Edge, will influence far more youngsters to have a go at learning  to play the guitar, then any Satriani style player will - Often you find out about the likes of Jo as you progress with your playing ability, but they are generally not the reason you first pick up a guitar

Who is the best is only an opinion not a measurable factor

Majorscale

jimmyguitar said:

Back to the “rig run down” video, what a passionate tech! He seems to genuinely love the Edge and working on his guitars and it’s a great interview.

Interesting video but the interviewer was a bit too Bill & Ted for me. “Wow. Yeah Man. That’s Great. Wow...”

rsvmark

Thanks for posting up @guitars4you - enjoyed that. What I liked about it was that Edge appears to be dedicated to his craft- whether it's listening to last nights tapes, tweaking mic positions, a/b capacitors in the leads so the wireless sounds right, he appears to be utterly ocd. I love that- the guy is dedicated to getting and recreating the sounds he wants. Long may that continue- yes he's with £250m and has a beach house in Malibu but his pursuit of tone puts us all to shame.... (Maybe apart from @gassage) and it makes a refreshing change.

Bridgehouse

thegummy said:

I have a hypothetical for you - let's imagine there's a bass line as great as The Chain but let's imagine the band who play the song doesn't have an actual great bass player like John McVie, let's imagine they have a run of the mill bass player. Also let's say that you discover that the bass line was actually written by a songwriter on a piano or synth by someone who has never picked up any kind of guitar. Who in that example would be a great bass player because of it?

I think this is only relevant for the discussion here if we really thought the bass line was being played on a bass, and we thought it was written on a bass (a la the edge - we think/know his guitar parts were/are written on guitar)

And to an extent that answers the question. We appear to be violently agreeing on the point that the edge is a great musician, but we can’t agree on him being a great guitarist.

You suggest you need to be technically excellent to be a great guitarist, I say you just need to have something in your playing that sets you apart from the masses.

Most people on here won’t write guitar parts for a multi-million selling band (sorry guys!) regardless of their technique. If one of us wrote such a guitar part (no matter how complex it is) we would consider them great as a guitarist for achieving something out of the ordinary with their playing. 

Well, that’s how I see it anyway. You can do amazing technical things with a football and not be considered a great footballer - or you can be technically not great but have a goalscorers instinct that gets you a place in the national team every match and be considered a great.