My latest ‘50s Les Paul conversion project- eye popping original flame top!

WezV

jumping@shadows said:

WezV said:

The main difference I see to indicate a veneer is the consistency of the figure across the carve on the left one

But if I didn’t know one was a veneer I would be a lot less sure

In person you wouldn’t question it imo, although it does have a different quality vs solid figured maple 

Im sure you are right.  If I saw that figure on a new unmolested Gibson I would assume they found a bit with good consistent figure through the blank before I even considered a veneer.   

Wouldn’t have a clue about the veneered one on the previous page, even next to an original.  the figure changes around the carve  which adds to the illusion nicely 

robgilmo

How do you get veneer to adhere to a curved top like that?

Bridgehouse

robgilmo said:

How do you get veneer to adhere to a curved top like that?

really really sticky glue

jumping@shadows

robgilmo said:

How do you get veneer to adhere to a curved top like that?

It’s actually a really involved and challenging process, where you have to ‘form’ the veneer to the compound curved top by repeatedly test fitting and sanding the centre line of the two halves where there’s ‘buckling’ caused by the join being pushed off true- hard to explain! 

fretfinder

peteri said:

And this is my 53/59 conversion Yuuki did

https://imgur.com/a/rV0MC

That’s a very nicely done sunburst and I bet it plays and sounds lovely. Out of interest, did you get the opportunity to have that done as either a Goldtop or a burst? With that very obvious off-centre top join I’d have thought that would have been a great candidate to revert to gold personally. 

DrBob

On a slight tangent, how do you get a veneer to sit on a carved top without getting creases in it ?

if I take a sheet of paper and try to wrap it over a single axis curve like say a paint tin no bother, but if I were to try and wrap it over my space hopper (yeah I know, the analogy has gone a bit weird) I end up with creases in it 

peteri

To be honest I didn’t get the chance because I got it ‘second hand’ - someone else had specced it. 

That said (and I love goldttops) i think I’d have gone burst - it looks wonderful in the flesh 

Danielsguitars

DrBob said:

On a slight tangent, how do you get a veneer to sit on a carved top without getting creases in it ?

if I take a sheet of paper and try to wrap it over a single axis curve like say a paint tin no bother, but if I were to try and wrap it over my space hopper (yeah I know, the analogy has gone a bit weird) I end up with creases in it 

it's vacuum pressed, basically stick the body in a bag and suck the air out, acoustic builders use that method probably the most for various things, one being gluing bridges on

OilCityPickups

customkits said:

DrBob said:

On a slight tangent, how do you get a veneer to sit on a carved top without getting creases in it ?

if I take a sheet of paper and try to wrap it over a single axis curve like say a paint tin no bother, but if I were to try and wrap it over my space hopper (yeah I know, the analogy has gone a bit weird) I end up with creases in it 

it's vacuum pressed, basically stick the body in a bag and suck the air out, 

I use this method for difficult customers 

DrBob

customkits said:

DrBob said:

On a slight tangent, how do you get a veneer to sit on a carved top without getting creases in it ?

if I take a sheet of paper and try to wrap it over a single axis curve like say a paint tin no bother, but if I were to try and wrap it over my space hopper (yeah I know, the analogy has gone a bit weird) I end up with creases in it 

it's vacuum pressed, basically stick the body in a bag and suck the air out, acoustic builders use that method probably the most for various things, one being gluing bridges on

Okay but why doesn’t the veneer crease ? I’m guessing it stretches or warps ?

fretfinder

fretfinder said:

peteri said:

And this is my 53/59 conversion Yuuki did

https://imgur.com/a/rV0MC

That’s a very nicely done sunburst and I bet it plays and sounds lovely. Out of interest, did you get the opportunity to have that done as either a Goldtop or a burst? With that very obvious off-centre top join I’d have thought that would have been a great candidate to revert to gold personally. 

peteri said:

To be honest I didn’t get the chance because I got it ‘second hand’ - someone else had specced it. 

That said (and I love goldttops) i think I’d have gone burst - it looks wonderful in the flesh 

Ah understood. Is it actually a three-piece top? I can’t quite tell from the pic. Because of the obvious top join it looks very similar to a 70s LP Standard I had back in the day. 

Danielsguitars

TheGuitarWeasel said:

customkits said:

DrBob said:

On a slight tangent, how do you get a veneer to sit on a carved top without getting creases in it ?

if I take a sheet of paper and try to wrap it over a single axis curve like say a paint tin no bother, but if I were to try and wrap it over my space hopper (yeah I know, the analogy has gone a bit weird) I end up with creases in it 

it's vacuum pressed, basically stick the body in a bag and suck the air out, 

I use this method for difficult customers 

spot on, always handy to have a bag big enough 

Danielsguitars

DrBob said:

customkits said:

DrBob said:

On a slight tangent, how do you get a veneer to sit on a carved top without getting creases in it ?

if I take a sheet of paper and try to wrap it over a single axis curve like say a paint tin no bother, but if I were to try and wrap it over my space hopper (yeah I know, the analogy has gone a bit weird) I end up with creases in it 

it's vacuum pressed, basically stick the body in a bag and suck the air out, acoustic builders use that method probably the most for various things, one being gluing bridges on

Okay but why doesn’t the veneer crease ? I’m guessing it stretches or warps ?

because the bag forms to the shape when the air is sucked out giving the same gluing pressure all over and it pulls it the veneer into the contours

robgilmo

Id end up with cracked veneer if I tried that, getting the join in the middle to sit true must be a right arse, my first thoughts were it must be steamed into shape.

OilCityPickups

In mycustomkits said:

TheGuitarWeasel said:

customkits said:

DrBob said:

On a slight tangent, how do you get a veneer to sit on a carved top without getting creases in it ?

if I take a sheet of paper and try to wrap it over a single axis curve like say a paint tin no bother, but if I were to try and wrap it over my space hopper (yeah I know, the analogy has gone a bit weird) I end up with creases in it 

it's vacuum pressed, basically stick the body in a bag and suck the air out, 

I use this method for difficult customers 

spot on, always handy to have a bag big enough 

In my experience 'head size' does just fine 

jumping@shadows

robgilmo said:

Id end up with cracked veneer if I tried that, getting the join in the middle to sit true must be a right arse, my first thoughts were it must be steamed into shape.

As I say, you have to test fit repeatedly and sand ‘relief’ into the centre join where the veneer won’t sit flat due to the warping caused by the compound curves- very tricky, and actually counter intuitive as the centre line is actually an extreme bell curve, or ‘spike’ with a gap that only closes once it’s glued down and not ‘straight’, and in fact when you lay the veneer on a flat surface, it stands proud and in an already domed approximation of the top- not an easy process to get to grips with! 

WezV

here is a vid that covers some of the issues of veneering a carved top (different style of guitar with a different carve) - about 9 mins in he talks about the centre line issue

Philly_Q

WezV said:

here is a vid that covers some of the issues of veneering a carved top (different style of guitar with a different carve) - about 9 mins in he talks about the centre line issue

I'm surprised how much trial-and-error there is.

It's interesting that despite all this extra time and effort, it's still cost-effective for the budget LP-copy manufacturers to use veneered tops rather than just shelling out for a chunk of figured maple.  Although of course they're not doing everything by hand.

ICBM

Philly_Q said:

It's interesting that despite all this extra time and effort, it's still cost-effective for the budget LP-copy manufacturers to use veneered tops rather than just shelling out for a chunk of figured maple.  Although of course they're not doing everything by hand.

It wouldn't surprise me if the two halves are veneered separately before they're cut to size, glued together and onto the body. That would make the whole process very easy.

mbe

I think the volume manufactures preform veneers on a vacuum system.