The Harrisons found guilty of organising the £1 million raid on the Guitar Ranch, Verona in 2006.

peteri

Stu_tate said:

On a side note I have met and spoken with David and he seems to be extremely knowledgeable and like a decent guy. I wonder why he had it for sale if he suspected it to be off. Maybe he missed it and was embarrassed to say so, who knows. 

Without going into detail there are some of us here who have had different experiences

jumping@shadows

Music Ground simultaneously leased/ran three properties in central London as well as a central Leeds premises for almost 20 years, and are world famous for their audacious scams- from fake Bursts, fake Explorers, fake custom colour Fenders, fake Marshall/Hiwatt/Vox amps, and yes, planning and executing a robbery of a hitherto close associate in the European  guitar community, and selling reassembled guitars from said robbery through their shops..

Have a think about the overheads of running business of that size for that long, and then how much money they must have been pulling in, and I think you’ll realise why they haven’t, and never will give a single shadow of a toss  about morality, legality or public opinion, and as several have observed they’re as active and brazen as ever all through this trial, and I’ll bet my boots no one in that organisation will be the least bit inconvenienced by the result of this case, or any other.

normula1

I just thank my lucky stars that I never did have the time / money to visit Music Ground in Leeds back when they regularly advertised in Guitarist.

mbe

normula1 said:

I just thank my lucky stars that I never did have the time / money to visit Music Ground in Leeds back when they regularly advertised in Guitarist.

Well if you never visited the fabled "Supreme Court of Rock and Roll" you missed out on abuse of the very highest order.

Three-ColourSunburst

Just seen this!

http://thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/140856/fake-marshall-gear-on-ebay-right-now

lewism

You wait ages for threads mentioning the Harrisons and then three turn up at once. Just like mint condition, uncirculated ‘58 Explorers.

HarrySeven

jumping@shadows said:

I think you’ll realise why they haven’t, and never will give a single shadow of a toss  about morality, legality or public opinion, and as several have observed they’re as active and brazen as ever...

Indeed. Sometimes, human nature amazes me.

grappagreen

jumping@shadows said:

Have a think about the overheads of running business of that size for that long, and then how much money they must have been pulling in, and I think you’ll realise why they haven’t, and never will give a single shadow of a toss  about morality, legality or public opinion, and as several have observed they’re as active and brazen as ever all through this trial, and I’ll bet my boots no one in that organisation will be the least bit inconvenienced by the result of this case, or any other.

Crooks are crooks...doesn't matter if they're dealing in stolen guitars or running HSBC laundering drug cartel money. They don't care or they wouldn't be doing it in the first place. They just care about getting richer..

 HarrySeven said:

Indeed. Sometimes, human nature amazes me.

Yes - never ceases to amaze me either.. sad init..

Si

ourmaninthenorth

I like to be flea free, ergo I don't lie with dogs.

I've heard much about these acrobatics, but never that they put a gun to ones head to force one to buy their wares. 

This stuff is dead simple lads. 

Kitsune

ourmaninthenorth said:

I like to be flea free, ergo I don't lie with dogs.

I've heard much about these acrobatics, but never that they put a gun to ones head to force one to buy their wares. 

This stuff is dead simple lads. 

Totally agree. As much as I want a Hiwatt.

Three-ColourSunburst

HarrySeven said:

Sometimes, human nature amazes me.

 And it is not just the Harrisons and all the other sharks in the vintage guitar world that make one wonder at human nature.

The other side of the coin is that such people thrive because so many are willing to put their critical faculties on hold because they really want to believe that the particular guitar or amp or whatever in front of them is the real deal. I have certainly seen people rationalising buying from the Harrisons by saying 'Sure, they have offloaded some dodgy stuff in their time,but they are still a great source of authentic vintage gear, and I am sure that the guitar I bought from them is genuine.'

It's even possible that the Harrison's rationalise what they do by telling themselves that they are just helping to make people's dreams come true!

grappagreen

Three-ColourSunburst said:

HarrySeven said:

Sometimes, human nature amazes me.

 And it is not just the Harrisons and all the other sharks in the vintage guitar world that make one wonder at human nature.

The other side of the coin is that such people thrive because so many are willing to put their critical faculties on hold because they really want to believe that the particular guitar or amp or whatever in front of them is the real deal. I have certainly seen people rationalising buying from the Harrisons by saying 'Sure, they have offloaded some dodgy stuff in their time,but they are still a great source of authentic vintage gear, and I am sure that the guitar I bought from them is genuine.'

It's even possible that the Harrison's rationalise what they do by telling themselves that they are just helping to make people's dreams come true!

Your point around people acting totally irrationally is so bang on.. I've sold a fair few guitars in my time (not vintage I might add) and I have yet to deal with a single buyer who hadn't 'bought' the guitar before they got there. It absolutely amazes me tbh..

Having realised that I am as open to this type of behaviour as others I actually have a process that I go through when buying a guitar and the last thing on my list to do is actually play the thing! And I would never buy a vintage instrument for a couple of reasons; 1. I am clueless and 2. I don't get the appeal..

 

DB1

I'm pretty clueless as to vintage instruments, but I do get the appeal - I think it depends what you want it/them for though. I have a few now - six, shortly to be eight or nine, and there's a feel and tone about some of them that seems to be different. Maybe that's just perception, I don't know, but picking up an 1956 ES-5 Switchmaster or a 1938 ES-150 is a bit of an occasion in itself (for example) and, for me, it's also wondering about the history behind it, and appreciating the craftsmanship, the looks, the sound, the feel, all of that.

I've decided to go down the route of less modern guitars, and a few more nice vintage USA stuff - the 'collectibles' don't have to be played all the time, and I've found that some of the modern stuff has been unplayed, more or less, so there's a bit of a clearout going on at the moment. 

If I was a working musician, though, I'd rely on more modern stuff for that (I'm not) and for learning and practising, a modern day Strat, Tele, ES-345, Lucille, R9, L-5, ES-175, ES-295, cover most of the bases. Probably.....  

grappagreen

I do get what you're saying of course.. I was referring to owning rather than playing to qualify my statement..

I have a fine vintage instrument that was given to me and I do get the point. I'm also very interested in playing (not owning) other vintage stuff. All the rest of my stuff is modern and it's this that gets played for 95% of my time and gigged regularly. It's a practical thing I suppose..

NelsonP

My uncle is a proefessional cello player. His cello is a 'vintage' instrument - think 1800s rather than 1950s.
These things are like triggers broom - so many bits have been replaced over the years that they have to be re-certified in order to sell them on as a fully 'correct' vintage instrument. This means the quality of the repair, the materials used etc all have to be legit. Without the certification they are only worth a fraction fo the price.

So a possible solution would be to introduce this kind of certification for vintage guitars. It could be overseen by whatever trade association there is for music instrument retailers, with a few of the best respected vintage 'experts' as inspectors. Although I can see how that might also be open to exploitation it would be better than the wild west situation that you have now.

DB1

Yes, I know what you mean. I don't think I'd just 'own' a vintage guitar if I didn't enjoy playing it, even if the playing of it is less frequent than that of a modern guitar. 

musicman100

Kitsune said:

ourmaninthenorth said:

I like to be flea free, ergo I don't lie with dogs.

I've heard much about these acrobatics, but never that they put a gun to ones head to force one to buy their wares. 

This stuff is dead simple lads. 

Totally agree. As much as I want a Hiwatt.

I always thought thought Hiwatt had a great repatriation?

Modellista

normula1 said:

I just thank my lucky stars that I never did have the time / money to visit Music Ground in Leeds back when they regularly advertised in Guitarist.

They seemed like a legit music shop to my innocent eyes, stocking new stuff from the usual brands as well as vintage gear I had no interest in (because money).  I bought a Washburn N2 from the Leeds shop in 1992 - my first proper electric.  That, at least, isn't a fake.  I can remember the sales guy clear as day, proper old rocker with long grey hair and beard.  They had loads of autographs on the walls in chalk pen, one from BB King stands out in the memory.

Or maybe they were fake as well...

heavyrocker

Modellista said:

normula1 said:

I just thank my lucky stars that I never did have the time / money to visit Music Ground in Leeds back when they regularly advertised in Guitarist.

They seemed like a legit music shop to my innocent eyes, stocking new stuff from the usual brands as well as vintage gear I had no interest in (because money).  I bought a Washburn N2 from the Leeds shop in 1992 - my first proper electric.  That, at least, isn't a fake.  I can remember the sales guy clear as day, proper old rocker with long grey hair and beard.  They had loads of autographs on the walls in chalk pen, one from BB King stands out in the memory.

Or maybe they were fake as well...

Obviously not everything they sold was fake. That’s the crazy thing, they could have had a successful business acting legitimately but they chose to be scumbags instead.

Kitsune

musicman100 said:

Kitsune said:

ourmaninthenorth said:

I like to be flea free, ergo I don't lie with dogs.

I've heard much about these acrobatics, but never that they put a gun to ones head to force one to buy their wares. 

This stuff is dead simple lads. 

Totally agree. As much as I want a Hiwatt.

I always thought thought Hiwatt had a great repatriation?

Someone here said a while ago that the Harrisons were still in the background somewhere.