Is this neck out of alignment?

Twinfan

I doubt there would be an issue but what if the gap widens under the fingerboard?  Probably nothing to worry about I guess.

ICBM

Twinfan said:

I doubt there would be an issue but what if the gap widens under the fingerboard?  Probably nothing to worry about I guess.

You would never know about that sort of thing on most Gibsons without an X-ray machine.

The irony is that Fender were slated in the 1970s for poor neck joint fit, but in fact Gibsons can be much worse - you just don’t usually see it.

The surprise here - or would be if it wasn’t Gibson! - is that they let such an obvious visible fault out with no attempt to fix or disguise it.

This is why I was concerned until I saw inside the pickup cavity, by the way... these are the pics I remembered. (Click ‘expand’ on the first post.)

https://markweinguitarlessons.com/forums/threads/the-perils-of-gibsons-short-neck-tenon.1826/

grappagreen

Three-ColourSunburst said:

axisus said:

Looks wrong to me. As already mentioned, I'd send back for that money. 

That thing about out of 10 guitars that are the same, one is a bit special - I'm pretty sure that's one of the 9.

That's exactly what I thought when I saw that so many were buying those R8 and R9s because they had been reduced in price. (So now people were only paying only a grand over the top for the Gibson logo and 'R' designation, rather than 2 or 3.   ) Even so, I see that some mindful of the usual 'never buy a Gibson you haven't played' rule bought a couple with the intention of keeping the best of the two.

It all brings to mind Henning Pauly's recent Les Paul shootout. The best in the whole test was a Gibson R8 that had been snapped up by a member of the Thomann staff (I think) who recognised it as being the stand out instrument in the stock they had been sent. Non of the other Gibsons came close, including a 8,500 Euro 'colector's choice' and as Pauly said (I paraphrase) "This is the last Les Paul you would ever want, but there is no point just saying 'Buy an R8 and you will get an instrument just like this', because that is not how things work with Gibson, with Gibson it's the individual instrument, not the model that counts."

Conversely, another standout 'Les Paul' was an FJN Neo Classic 30 fitted with Seymour Duncan 'Whole lotta humbucker' pickups, with a solid flame maple top, long tenon, and so on at around 1800 Euros. Here buying one wouldn't be a lottery (or at least would be one with much shorter odds than if one was buying a Gibson) but of course, no matter how great is sounded, how well it played and how well it was constructed, for many it could never be a 'real' Les Paul.

This is such a valid point - there's no doubt that in a bunch of same spec models you'll maybe get a percentage of great, some of average and some of poor. As much a function of QC as just 'the right bits coming together at the right time'.

I do wonder however how many of the great ones are just snagged by the people in the guitar retail business (or their mates etc) so we never really get to see them..

Si

JerkMoans

ICBM said:

Twinfan said:

I doubt there would be an issue but what if the gap widens under the fingerboard?  Probably nothing to worry about I guess.

You would never know about that sort of thing on most Gibsons without an X-ray machine.

The irony is that Fender were slated in the 1970s for poor neck joint fit, but in fact Gibsons can be much worse - you just don’t usually see it.

The surprise here - or would be if it wasn’t Gibson! - is that they let such an obvious visible fault out with no attempt to fix or disguise it.

This is why I was concerned until I saw inside the pickup cavity, but the way... these are the pics I remembered. (Click ‘expand’ on the first post.)

https://markweinguitarlessons.com/forums/threads/the-perils-of-gibsons-short-neck-tenon.1826/

Wiz'd.  I never really understood all the voodoo surrounding tenon length before reading that...

WezV

terada said:

WezV said:

poopot said:

Send it back, this is what a well fitted tenon should look like...

Exactly... shimming for a good fit is fine, just like on that one.

What do you reckon from the updated pics?

I answered that on my previous post.   its cosmetic only so your choice

  My "exactly" was in response to the pic of a good fitting tenon, one that includes shims which some would balk at. -  not the "send it back".   

you see similar neck fitting shims on Gibsons from all periods, including many 50's ones.   Its also commonly done in acoustic construction.   Ideally you wouldn't need to do it, but it is still a perfectly acceptable way to do things

yours actually looks un shimmed, so an ideal fit... but someone damaged that top corner of maple during the fitting process

terada

Sorry @WezV , I misunderstood  . 

Thanks everyone for your help. Good to know it is not a structural issue. I'll have a think as to whether it really bothers me, and get in touch with GG to see whether they can offer anything to ensure it bothers me even less.

I'll keep you posted on the outcome!

ICBM

WezV said:

you see similar neck fitting shims on Gibsons from all periods, including many 50's ones.   Its also commonly done in acoustic construction.   Ideally you wouldn't need to do it, but it is still a perfectly acceptable way to do things

Exactly - if the shim makes the resulting joint a tight fit, covers the whole area of the gap it’s filling (or at least very close) and it’s well-glued on both sides, then structurally it's no different from a joint that fits properly without one.

The problem is a bodge like the one in the link above, where it leaves huge gaps and is clearly far weaker than a properly-fitting joint - even if they’d actually used enough glue!

What this shows is that what looked at first like one of those from the outside, actually proved to be something quite different when it could be seen properly, so it was well worth finding that out before deciding what to do.

Musicman20

If it is cosmetic, then maybe you would be happy with a part refund?

johnl

In today's Gibson Custom Shop episode of "Not my job Guv":


All of those little dots inside the pickup cavity are bits of sawdust that someone has sprayed finish over rather than take a few seconds to remove it. The guitar itself is great and compares very favourably to other custom shop guitars that I've played but that's still impressively lazy....

armitaan

johnl said:

In today's Gibson Custom Shop episode of "Not my job Guv":


All of those little dots inside the pickup cavity are bits of sawdust that someone has sprayed finish over rather than take a few seconds to remove it. The guitar itself is great and compares very favourably to other custom shop guitars that I've played but that's still impressively lazy....

Guess they probably spraying hundreds a day though, and know no one ever going to notice in quality  control. Seems a bit shoddy but pretty sure after doing that same job for a number few weeks I would look for as many corners to cut as possible to hit my targets

Neil

And these are "Custom Shop" guitars.

Gawd knows what the ordinary stuff is like. 

terada

Neil said:

And these are "Custom Shop" guitars.

Gawd knows what the ordinary stuff is like. 

The worst bit is that I've seen this on 5 of the 15 guitars R8's I've played over the past month.

WezV

johnl said:

In today's Gibson Custom Shop episode of "Not my job Guv":


All of those little dots inside the pickup cavity are bits of sawdust that someone has sprayed finish over rather than take a few seconds to remove it. The guitar itself is great and compares very favourably to other custom shop guitars that I've played but that's still impressively lazy....

Looks like wood fluff from routing rather than chips... the process doesn’t always leave a clean cut on all woods.  Some mahogany can be a bit fuzzy when routed

is this a lighter one?

johnl

It is indeed, 8.3lbs give or take.

WezV

johnl said:

It is indeed, 8.3lbs give or take.

Often it’s the lighter mahogany that gets more wood fuzz when routing.  The denser stuff cuts cleaner

johnl

WezV said:

johnl said:

It is indeed, 8.3lbs give or take.

Often it’s the lighter mahogany that gets more wood fuzz when routing.  The denser stuff cuts cleaner

Thanks Wez, good to know, in that case I'm now considering this to be a feature rather than a bug....

scrumhalf

This sort of thread is one of the reasons I love this place.

Not being either a Gibson owner or a guitar repairer I had no idea about these sorts of things.

terada

just found another example (this time an R9) on the Andertons website. (open in a new tab and zoom in to see it more clearly)

Adamski

Are you looking at the lines or a misalignment now? Mine has a line either side in between the pickup and neck. It’s not a hole, just where the wood is slotted in next to each other surely? 

Are we we saying it should be completely covered over? 

terada

Adamski said:

Are you looking at the lines or a misalignment now? Mine has a line either side in between the pickup and neck. It’s not a hole, just where the wood is slotted in next to each other surely? 

Are we we saying it should be completely covered over? 

A gap between the neck pickup and the fretboard is completely ok.

I'm talking about a small hole on one of the sides of the tenon.