Peach Guitars left the forum - well done you Cnuts

digitalscream

sunshinewelly said:

What was this benefit going to be. As far as I could tell there was no benefit to a member of this forum buying from peach than anyone else buying from them. For example there are a couple of big audio visual forums out there where regular contributors get free postage or a discount from some retailers who promote their goods on the said forum. 

You can't tell there was any benefit because you're only thinking in terms of personal benefit, and you're also thinking in terms of a benefit at the time. There are two points to talking to businesses with regard to this forum - one is for direct benefits to members, and the other is a more strategic view of developing the forum and ensuring its longevity and relevance.

That thread gave us the opportunity to open communication with Peach, which we did. There were proposals which would've given the forum a new channel to work with...which is absolutely necessary in this day and age, because for small players like ourselves diversification (within a narrow field) is pretty much the only way to guarantee longevity.

In any case, it's a moot point now. However, the whole "Well, I didn't get any free stuff, so good riddance!" attitude is precisely why all efforts to expand the forum's reach and influence are pretty much doomed to failure. Shit like this is exactly why this forum doesn't have the deals that you're talking about.

Paul_C

I'm happy to be shot down for saying this, but I don't think you can allow folk the freedom they currently have AND expect perfect behaviour.

If you want a "better" forum then the mods need to clamp down on a lot of things and make the place more business friendly.

Get rid of posts that involve politics, religion and anything else that clearly gets people taking distinct sides.

Delete the whole of Behind Closed Doors.

Stop people using foul language regardless of whether they do it at home.

Make the rules far more specific than Rule 1 and enforce them without any exceptions.

Ban people who break the rules repeatedly and make it clear that this has been done, so that people know how to behave. (I know this is already done, but nevertheless I felt it worth including)

Be prepared for a lot of grief until things settle down.

Nunogilberto

TTony said:

READ THIS


I'm not particularly happy right now.  

I understand is that someone here decided to phone Peach and deliver a load of insults.  I don't know who.  I don't understand why.  The result is that John has opted to take his involvement away from the forum, which is a bad result for everyone here.


What we absolutely do not need now is people - with no more fact than me - jumping in with assumptions and (mis)interpretation to create arguments with each other and more ill-feeling across the forum.  Experience suggests that that's likely to happen.  It seems to be the way of internets and forums.  And this forum - regrettably - tends to suffer just as all the others do.  

Can we be different this time?  Once?

Rather than making a bad situation worse, and pissing me off even more, could the comments here be kept non-argumentative and respectful - of each other as well as Peach.


Thank you.

Surely then, the best way is to close the thread? Otherwise the conjecture is only going to continue.

roberty

Genuinely shocked by this. Just music innit, bit of fun

Philly_Q

Paul_C said:

Get rid of posts that involve politics, religion and anything else that clearly gets people taking distinct sides.

Delete the whole of Behind Closed Doors.

Stop people using foul language regardless of whether they do it at home.

So get rid of all discussions about PRS guitars?  Relic finishes?  Joe Bonamassa?  Does body wood affect tone timbre?

Welcome to the FretBoard.

Skipped

I am sorry to hear that Peach are no longer with us. Is it possible that the whole experience has been frustrating for them?

Gibson do not have a European warehouse full of NOS  guitars that are deliberately held back for one year. The guitars we are discussing are unsold guitars (for whatever reason). In the past couple of years these guitars have been cleared using the world's most prolific Box Shifter. Amazon.

Amazon are geared up for this. If buyers are disappointed with the Box Shifting experience, a team of well trained staff make soothing noises from the other side of the world and the price is adjusted to match the disappointing experience or the disappointing 2015 Les Paul Junior  that has already been returned twice.

Peach are not Box Shifters. They are specialist retailers. They have an excellent reputation among customers who post here (including me). I hope that Peach are looking at  this thread and have seen the many supportive messages.

Is it  possible that Gibson will again have to rethink their strategy with regard to old stock? Was it a mistake to ask a Specialist Retailer to take a batch of NOS guitars with the retail price (and presumably the profit margin) slashed, and to sell these guitars alongside their normal stock?

There were hints in the R8 thread of a buying frenzy. For example - the need to explain that it is first come first served and that retail customers walking into the shop were also buying the NOS guitars. If there was frustration among distant buyers who were hoping to have first pick, there was perhaps also frustration for the staff at the Specialist Retailer.

This does not excuse the rude behaviour on the phone that has somehow become linked with our forum. Not in any way. I am just asking if the incident was the last straw in a frustrating episode.

guitarfishbay

YouTube, FaceBook, Instagram etc, a business can have full control over the content and the community.

Many companies have their own FaceBook groups these days and some are quite active in them. Deals can be given directly to people in these groups, for example how Plugin Alliance work - they do deals which are advertised by email to existing customers, and to members of their closed FB group where the owner posts (not the main business FB page as far as I see).

By a company not posting on here it’s unlikely many would miss a public deal. In fact a lot of the time it’s members reposting publicly available deals here, not the businesses.

So when it comes down to exclusive deals my question is what is thefretboard offering and why does that beat what the business can achieve for themselves?

Why would a company post deals here vs offering it to their own customer base first?

Especially considering many want a situation where ‘we’ hold all the cards regarding ‘free speech’, or at least tone of discussion. That does seem to be part of the USP.

To me the two ideals are kind of mutually opposed to some degree, so a decision needs to be made. The time factor being the longer a decision is not made the less likely it is that it’s possible to involve businesses, as thus far they eventually seem to get driven away.

I honestly would be ok with either option, but I get the feeling we are in no mans land right now.

p90fool

axisus said:

I've long felt that it would be good to have a rule of not criticising or dissing and Professional shops or company that uses the forum.

Step this way sir, the Supreme Court of Rock 'n' Roll awaits your custom. 


So the TL;DR version is that one of the 10,000 members of this forum (who may also be a member of the Caravan Club and the Dagenham Girl Pipers for all we know) had an argument with Peach ON THE PHONE, and Peach have now bailed on a vague, intangible "deal" with The Fretboard before completion, leading to the other 9,999 of us being called (with moderator backing no less) a bunch of cunts. 

So now all the members hate each other, the moderators hate the members, and Peach are crying all the way to the bank.

I think I'll sign back out again tbh, and I've only been back for a day!

mellowsun

Paul_C said:

I'm happy to be shot down for saying this, but I don't think you can allow folk the freedom they currently have AND expect perfect behaviour.

If you want a "better" forum then the mods need to clamp down on a lot of things and make the place more business friendly.

Get rid of posts that involve politics, religion and anything else that clearly gets people taking distinct sides.

Delete the whole of Behind Closed Doors.

Stop people using foul language regardless of whether they do it at home.

Make the rules far more specific than Rule 1 and enforce them without any exceptions.

Ban people who break the rules repeatedly and make it clear that this has been done, so that people know how to behave. (I know this is already done, but nevertheless I felt it worth including)

Be prepared for a lot of grief until things settle down.

+1000 to this. I suggested similar a couple of years back, got fairly short shrift tbh. At the same time, I'm as guilty as anyone, if people are allowed to discuss politics, use bad language and what not, they'll do it, get shirty, and fall out with each other.

guitarfishbay

I think there’s a big difference between constructive criticism and outright bashing. Most people can tell the difference too.

One active FB community I’m in has a no trash talk policy, but it doesn’t censor people who say they don’t like things as long as it’s worded constructively 

beed84

Regardless of what’s been said and who has done what, this thread – at least to me, anyway – is incredibly counter-productive. It’s an emotional response to a situation that has begetted similar emotional responses from others, none of which are helpful in any way and only serve to promote the forum in a negative way.

Although it has been said that the forum is a poorer place without Peach, that might be true; however, we, the majority, make this forum. Maybe if we took a step back and viewed things a bit more objectively, we might have a better chance of resolving such situations positively. Because if I were a guitar retailer thinking of joining and had read this thread, I’d quite quickly change my mind. Seriously, we’re not going to gain popularity with threads like these.

ourmaninthenorth

Skipped said:

........

Peach are not Box Shifters. They are specialist retailers. They have an excellent reputation among customers who post here (including me). I hope that Peach are looking at  this thread and have seen the many supportive messages.

.........

My apologies for cherry picking @Skipped, but you're bang on with these comments. The last time I dealt with Peach, many moons ago, was buying this guitar from the personal collection of one of Peach's owners..so long ago that to my eternal shame, I can't remember the Gentleman's name. It was obvious that I was dealing with someone that a) knew his onions and b) knew how to deal with people who also know their onions. The guitar is a Martin/Dale Unger CF1 collaboration. Superb instrument. 



Amongst the multitude of deals that I was doing at the time, it endures in my memory as being particularly satisfying on all levels. I have no reason to believe, from feedback of people who's opinions I value, that the current crew at Peach have deviated much from the ethos that I was met with. 

Similarly, the vast majority of people that I've dealt with here, buying, selling, discussing, arguing...have all shared a similar world view. We may not all be dancing to the same tune, but I think we're all trying to stay in the same parade. 

This Forum can and will survive those intent on pissing in the well. 

boogieman

I’ve stayed out of this thread till now, but feel I need to comment. 

Name and shame this dick? Why? All that would achieve is a load of pitchforks at dawn. Haven’t we had enough aggro on here already? Ban the member if his/her identity is known by all means, but there’s no real need to make it public is there? 

It’s a shame that Peach have gone, and not because “we could’ve got deals through them”... we simply lose their knowledge and input. The more members and expert knowledge we lose, the poorer this place becomes. 

digitalscream

p90fool said:

So the TL;DR version is that one of the 10,000 members of this forum (who may also be a member of the Caravan Club and the Dagenham Girl Pipers for all we know) had an argument with Peach ON THE PHONE quoting tFB as their justification for the abuse

There, fixed that for you.

p90fool said:

...and Peach have now bailed on a vague, intangible "deal" with The Fretboard before completion

It was neither vague nor intangible, we're just not saying what it was right now because we're clinging to the hope that it may be resurrected in some form or another, possibly with another retailer.

p90fool said:

...leading to the other 9,999 of us being called (with moderator backing no less) a bunch of cunts. 

Can you show me where we backed that up? I can't see it. Simply posting in a thread doesn't imply support for the exact sentiment expressed in the original post. Neither does not deleting it, as evidenced by the fact that the forum actually exists as more than a blog for Tony and I.

Schnozz

How can you stop someone ringing up Peach and handing out a load of abuse? If it was really bad then I would be informing the police and report it to the forum.

The forum isn't a school for etiquette, so you can only expect it to reinforce decency. 13 year old gamers gave @gringopig a hard time about what they were going to do to his elderly mother, but the game developers wouldn't give a toss if he told them, although you could get them banned via an admin (same as here). Would it stop you playing the game? No - you'd just shoot em up 'long dick style' etc.

For that one sweary phone call, Peach made a haul! Circa £100k, because Gibson were informed of an undisclosed charity raffle and they donated the R8s for free (so I 'eard)

And can that sweary person walk out the office and down the stairs on a Sunday morning, in gown, pipe and slippers, to a saloon full of Vigiers, Eggles and Atkins? No...So that's 2-1.

I'm sitting here wearing a cricket cup while the low balls come through gumtree, so feel sorry for me instead. I want a bass and welcome some one-off phone call abuse in exchange for one. Gimme a right verbal spankin', you Nancy you.

Fretwired

Paul_C said:

I'm happy to be shot down for saying this, but I don't think you can allow folk the freedom they currently have AND expect perfect behaviour.

If you want a "better" forum then the mods need to clamp down on a lot of things and make the place more business friendly.

Get rid of posts that involve politics, religion and anything else that clearly gets people taking distinct sides.

Delete the whole of Behind Closed Doors.

Stop people using foul language regardless of whether they do it at home.

Make the rules far more specific than Rule 1 and enforce them without any exceptions.

Ban people who break the rules repeatedly and make it clear that this has been done, so that people know how to behave. (I know this is already done, but nevertheless I felt it worth including)

Be prepared for a lot of grief until things settle down.

There'd be nobody left.

Since politics got moved to a private section it's been fine. Those that want to chew the cud do so without insulting each other. There are some civilised Brexit debates that haven't ended up as slanging matches. Perhaps there's something that could be learned from this.

Not sure of how the tech works but would it be possible to have an area for dealers like the BCD/Politics section - that way Google won't index the comments so dealers won't be put off by the odd negative comment being broadcast all over social media - and created in such a way that people who break the rules can be excluded. The idea being that it's for people who want to interact with the trade. Those that just want to bash Joe B. and Gibson can carry on as they were in the guitar section.

roberty

This place has been invaluable to me, I've learnt a huge amount and every question I've asked has been answered. I sourced great local guitar and amp techs when I moved to a new town. Uh don't know what I'm trying to say really. There's still a lot of value to a lot of people

prowla

Well, I missed all of this and hadn't heard of Peach before seeing this thread.

I think that there is an implication that a business/supplier/retailer who joins a forum and engages with members might be instigating some kind of a relationship, but I guess there needs to be clarity as to precisely what is on the table there, to avoid misunderstandings and disgruntlement.

Me, I participate in these fora for the interaction with like-minded folks, to learn things, and to buy stuff if the right thing appears.

Members should be entitled to voice their opinions (favourable or not), provided they meet the parameters defined by the site owners & moderators. Negative comments, and provided they do not contain lies, libel and insults, can be as useful and enlightening as praise.

scrumhalf

What I do not want to see is this place becoming irreversibly changed for the worse.

By all means have relationships with retailers and dealers. I think most people here can see through dealer bullshit, and I would hope that most dealers can see through toys-out-of-the-pram childishness.

There are possible answers but they would probably heap more work onto the shoulders of our mods, and I don't think that would be fair. Something like a sub-forum where dealers are able to make short posts of some deals they have on, but access to the forum is restricted to those members who know how to behave as sentient adults. But it's more work for the mods.

The problem here is the same problem that permeates almost all of the internet - it's easy to type offensive bollocks whilst hiding behind the near-anonymity offered by the medium with pretty much no chance of retribution.

The good that comes out of this place hugely outweighs the bad. There are several forumites whose posts I look forward to reading because of the content, style and wisdom they contain. The breadth of information on things you didn't even realise were things beggars belief. Pity to spoil it for the outpourings of a dick.

Dominic

Peach are a great shop with a huge and committed investment in the guitar business. They are a serious retail operation not a little Ma and Pa operation or hobby business.In short Proper professionals with a rightly respected reputation .As such they should know the following;
The sad fact of commerce today is transparency, real-time critique,Trip advisor type online reference and reviews .You can't even advertise your retail product without the internet throwing up 6 alternative options and 4 cheaper deals from warehouse Amazons to further destroy your customer base and spoil your potential sale. Put that together with the the traditional problem of difficult customers, rude customers, serial complainers bad-payers and complete time-wasters and it's easy to see why it's a tough battleground.
Restaurants and Hotels now have to take this in their stride (especially trip -advisor type abuse.)
 Sadly that is the stage for retail today."If you can't stand the heat ,get out the kitchen "
I completely agree with them saying ' sod it, don't need this ' .......it's their business and they can do as they please ...they are a business not an obligated public service and are entitled to say "get out of my shop "to anybody who is a nuisance or withdraw themselves from a forum .(which they did politely and gently without fuss which was very professional.)
 On a personal level I don't think that one unpleasant incident poisons a forum or that it is a barometer of the membership  nor should they expect their presence to be divinely beyond any kind of downside as that would be commercially naive. Hopefully the good outweighs the bad on both counts.
That's business..........as they say. Thicker skins all round.......