Budget Brands Played in Bands

dogload

Paul7926 said:

So are we saying from this that a gig worthy guitar can be had for about £500 be that a cheaper model with good pups fitted or just a stock guitar of that price?

A gig-worthy guitar is any guitar that does the job, isn't it? 
I didn't realise there was a price point for what gear you have to use!

Oh and here's Peter Hammill gigging his DeArmond M75T

Paul7926

dogload suaid:

Paul7926 said:

So are we saying from this that a gig worthy guitar can be had for about £500 be that a cheaper model with good pups fitted or just a stock guitar of that price?

A gig-worthy guitar is any guitar that does the job, isn't it? 
I didn't realise there was a price point for what gear you have to use!


Well yeah but I've struggled massively as a novice trying to figure out where along the huge range of prices you get to a point where the extra money required is just for bling or brand rather than anything that alters the playability. 

dazzajl

Paul7926 said:

dogload suaid:

Paul7926 said:

So are we saying from this that a gig worthy guitar can be had for about £500 be that a cheaper model with good pups fitted or just a stock guitar of that price?

A gig-worthy guitar is any guitar that does the job, isn't it? 
I didn't realise there was a price point for what gear you have to use!


Well yeah but I've struggled massively as a novice trying to figure out where along the huge range of prices you get to a point where the extra money required is just for bling or brand rather than anything that alters the playability. 

It does, largely, all make a difference of sorts. 

Driving from your house to mine in an Aston Martin will be a different experience to doing it in a Ford Focus but both will do a perfectly good job and in the real world, get you here just as quickly. A lot of the differences will also be in how others perceive you. 

If if you can afford the Aston, enjoy every bit of the extra experience it offers you. 

ICBM

dogload said:

Oh and here's Peter Hammill gigging his DeArmond M75T

These are just great guitars. The only reason they were fairly cheap is that they were made in Korea - the woodwork, hardware, fretting, finishing and pickups are as good as anything at any price. The electrics aren't great, but perfectly functional and easy enough to replace if you need to. And the knobs are very fragile... but USA Guilds tend to suffer from that too.

dogload

Paul7926 said:

dogload suaid:

Paul7926 said:

So are we saying from this that a gig worthy guitar can be had for about £500 be that a cheaper model with good pups fitted or just a stock guitar of that price?

A gig-worthy guitar is any guitar that does the job, isn't it? 
I didn't realise there was a price point for what gear you have to use!


Well yeah but I've struggled massively as a novice trying to figure out where along the huge range of prices you get to a point where the extra money required is just for bling or brand rather than anything that alters the playability. 

I suppose there is that thing about getting the look right

My first guitars were Satellite and Hondo planks and there is no denying that the more money you spend can get you a better guitar, but as with most things, it comes down to what feels right.

My main gigging guitars are my modded Squier J Mascis Jazzmasters (both bought secondhand for 275 quid), a Tokai Strat (bought new in 1983 for £150) and a Squier Tele (bought new 1988, £150). Now I have more expensive guitars (US Fenders, Rics etc), but the ones I use offer the sound and playability I want when playing in a band along with the advantage of not being mega-expensive if anything should happen to them.

As far as expensive vs. cheap goes, I used to have a 90's Japanese Fender Jaguar which I sold after getting a Squier VM Jag because the Squier was better. My Tokai is so much better than any other Strat I've ever played... it just feels right and sounds perfect for what I do.

I suppose it all comes down to deciding what it is you want and finding the right instrument. Once you know what is right for you, I don't think a higher price equates to higher functionality when it comes to guitars. 

Paul7926

Yeah I'm not having a pop at people who spend large amounts on their guitars.  It's their money and they can do what they want with it.  I think there is a time in peoples guitar journey where it's very confusing.  At the start you get whatever you can and there is plenty of advice out there around getting your first guitar.  Once you can play and have played for a while and experienced several guitars you have enough knowledge to make your own informed decision by trying them out.  The gap in the middle I think is where people try and use price as a gauge for quality and whilst there is some correlation it's still a minefield. I've noticed that in the £350 - £500 price range it's difficult to even find a proper review online.  Either it's a shop which are bound to say it's great value or it's an individual and they tend to fall into the extreme and either claim it's junk or better than a custom shop from the big names.  

Then you get the people who claim to gig with a £100 guitar but then you find out that they have changed the tuners, the pups, etc and suddenly their guitar is not really a £100 guitar any more.  They are also playing through a gig quality amp and mixing desk with a grands worth of pedals.  

The conclusion I'm drawing is that guitar price is almost irrelevant 

Henrytwang

Mark1960 said:

Slightly off topic as it was a local band, but a couple of years ago, I was in a pub and heard a band with a really good guitarist, so I went over to get a closer look, and he had a squire Strat, a couple of digitec pedals, and a very old Peavy amp (Studio Pro I think). He sounded amazing!

Nothing wrong with a Studio Pro. I own quite a few big name tube amps but often use a couple of old solid state Peavey combo amps. An old 40 watt Studio Pro which I’ve owned from new and a Bandit 65 which cost me £5 at a car boot sale a few years ago. Other than the bright switch giving up the ghost on the Studio, (I shorted it out so it’s always on now), neither has ever given me a problem. Many of today’s  budget guitars are well made and often only require a good setup and maybe improved electronics in order to make them very good giging guitars . During the 70s punk era it was quite fashionable to be seen playing cheap or less popular guitars but many of those guitars had been quite heavily worked on in order to make them play and sound good.

Philly_Q

Freebird said:

There are Squier guitars, and then there are Japanese Squiers from the 80's.

This, in its way, is just as subjective as the bigger topic of "is it worth paying £X when a guitar costing £Y will do the job".  I tried a Squier JV which the owner thought was amazing (it was, I admit, the only time I've played one) and to me it felt like just any old Strat, in fact a rather heavy, dull and unresponsive one. 

It's all just perception, pay what you want to pay, play what works for you.

joeyowen

The singer from Catfish... uses a squire (or did for a while).

Frank Iero from MCR always used Epiphones, which considering their young fan base, was awesome I thought.  I don't think he did it for that reason, but it probably helped (lol) a lot of parents on birthdays etc...

Jalapeno

JD50 said:

Prince played a Honher.

He did for a while but he mainly played 3 Roger Sadowsky custom built Teles, made to look like Hohner TE teles.

MagicPigDetective

I'm going through a Cure phase and read last night that Robert Smith played a £20 guitar bought from Woolworths (a Kay I think?) on The Cure's first album.

dogload

Paul7926 said:

Then you get the people who claim to gig with a £100 guitar but then you find out that they have changed the tuners, the pups, etc and suddenly their guitar is not really a £100 guitar any more.  They are also playing through a gig quality amp and mixing desk with a grands worth of pedals.  

The conclusion I'm drawing is that guitar price is almost irrelevant 

Ah, yes... guilty!  

I confess my JMJMs both have a replacement Mojo bridge pickup, replacement roller bridges, white witch hat knobs (purely cosmetic!), I ditched the gold scratchplates, and one has a proper lockable bridge. My Tokai is almost completely stock (apart from a Mighty Mite Screaming Strat pickup I installed in 1985!) and the paint job.

And I do use a few quids' worth of pedals... but that is a completely different subject! LOL

Grocer_Jack

MagicPigDetective said:

I'm going through a Cure phase and read last night that Robert Smith played a £20 guitar bought from Woolworths (a Kay I think?) on The Cure's first album.

I think it's on a few tracks, but most of it is the Jazzmaster. I have the info which tracks somewhere. Although he had a p/up from the Woolworths fitted to the JM in the 'middle' position.

DartmoorHedgehog

Well I've never had a guitar worth more than about £500 and, while I'm certainly not a top guitarist, if there's any problem with my sound it's not the instrument's fault.

With other instruments I play (take saxophones, at the risk of being called a troll...) there is pretty much no sound difference between a cheaper student model and a pro model.  A pro player on a cheap sax would sound the same as the same player on a top-of-the-range sax.  What you're paying for with the "pro" instrument is build quality, leading to ease of maintenance and longevity in heavy use.  Similar with other tools - a cheap screwdriver will undo screws just as well as a Snap-On when it's new, but will not stand up to heavy regular use.

I suppose the same thing applies to guitars but to a lesser extent (perhaps hardware and electrics quality and durability, although the wooden parts of a guitar are probably often actually stronger on the cheap ones).

All this is assuming you're above the utter crap level of course, but I'm not sure how much of that there is these days - even the cheapest guitars are not that bad now are they?

David5150

My main gigging guitar for the past 6 years has been my korean epiphone les paul with a set of irongear pickups in it. Far from mega budget

Without using the phrase mojo it just works for me 100% and whilst I'd love to fork out for a genuine gibson Lester that extra cash in exchange for a minor improvement in tone or play ability just isn't on the cards.

AlexC

dazzajl said:

Paul7926 said:

dogload suaid:

Paul7926 said:

So are we saying from this that a gig worthy guitar can be had for about £500 be that a cheaper model with good pups fitted or just a stock guitar of that price?

A gig-worthy guitar is any guitar that does the job, isn't it? 
I didn't realise there was a price point for what gear you have to use!


Well yeah but I've struggled massively as a novice trying to figure out where along the huge range of prices you get to a point where the extra money required is just for bling or brand rather than anything that alters the playability. 

It does, largely, all make a difference of sorts. 

Driving from your house to mine in an Aston Martin will be a different experience to doing it in a Ford Focus but both will do a perfectly good job and in the real world, get you here just as quickly. A lot of the differences will also be in how others perceive you. 

If if you can afford the Aston, enjoy every bit of the extra experience it offers you. 

But is there any point in owning an Aston if you’re just going to the shops? Surely it’s a car that’s made to be driven fast by someone who can handle it well? Sure, it’s a pleasurable experience, but doesn’t it just then become a display of income and just an indulgence?

dogload

AlexC said:

dazzajl said:

Paul7926 said:

dogload suaid:

Paul7926 said:

So are we saying from this that a gig worthy guitar can be had for about £500 be that a cheaper model with good pups fitted or just a stock guitar of that price?

A gig-worthy guitar is any guitar that does the job, isn't it? 
I didn't realise there was a price point for what gear you have to use!


Well yeah but I've struggled massively as a novice trying to figure out where along the huge range of prices you get to a point where the extra money required is just for bling or brand rather than anything that alters the playability. 

It does, largely, all make a difference of sorts. 

Driving from your house to mine in an Aston Martin will be a different experience to doing it in a Ford Focus but both will do a perfectly good job and in the real world, get you here just as quickly. A lot of the differences will also be in how others perceive you. 

If if you can afford the Aston, enjoy every bit of the extra experience it offers you. 

But is there any point in owning an Aston if you’re just going to the shops? Surely it’s a car that’s made to be driven fast by someone who can handle it well? Sure, it’s a pleasurable experience, but doesn’t it just then become a display of income and just an indulgence?

I think we can apply the same rationale to anything we buy to use.

I know I do when buying household cleansers. For the most part, Lidl offer a comparable product to more expensive, branded product. But at the end of the day, I'm still going to be chucking it down the toilet or cleaning the cooker with them (er, not the same product, loopholers).

It's all about personal preference and suitability for the job (again,no reference to the toilet).

darthed1981

AlexC said:

But is there any point in owning an Aston if you’re just going to the shops? Surely it’s a car that’s made to be driven fast by someone who can handle it well? Sure, it’s a pleasurable experience, but doesn’t it just then become a display of income and just an indulgence?

No, it's made to be a display of income and an indulgence, they just wouldn't be able to fulfil that goal if they were slow and crappy. 

Really, that's the market Gibson target, let's face it.

Also...

DartmoorHedgehog said:

if there's any problem with my sound it's not the instrument's fault.

Only a very tiny percentage of TFB members could say differently, and they aren't in a matching set with those who insist only multi-thousand pound gear is acceptable.

Nothing wrong with that of course, just the way things are.

DartmoorHedgehog

darthed1981 said:

DartmoorHedgehog said:

if there's any problem with my sound it's not the instrument's fault.

Only a very tiny percentage of TFB members could say differently, and they aren't in a matching set with those who insist only multi-thousand pound gear is acceptable.

Nothing wrong with that of course, just the way things are.

That's fair enough.  What I intended to imply was that a good player using a "cheap" guitar doesn't mean they'll sound bad.  Obviously some of the expensive models are "nice to have" though, and you'd expect these famous (and presumably quite well-off in many cases) professional players to go for something posh.  In cases such as Midge Ure with the Vintage Les Paul, I wonder how much of it is that they actually _prefer_ the cheaper make and how much is that they have a lucrative deal with the manufacturer which means they have to be seen using them (and nothing wrong with that - it's their job and it's just a business deal).  It needs to be good enough to do the job of course, but you've got to go _really_ cheap before you get to anything that isn't fit to use if set up properly.

mikem8634

I'd be interested to know if any of these budget guitars are paired with budget amps on the professional stages.