Fender CS prices

Strat54

£6499 for a Masterbuilt guitar wouldn't be so bad if they actually built you guitar themselves. They don't. They don't paint them even. By the time the 'masterbuilder' touches your guitar the hard work has already been done. Meanwhile back in the real world you can buy a guitar from guys like Mike Smith, Joe Dobson, Carson Hess, Marc Rutter, Feline etc etc....and they do actually BUILD your guitar...for under half that price. 
In the 1990's a Masterbuilt guitar was around $500 over the price of a teambuilt....todays its $3000. Explain that. 
There are no 'Masters' left at Fender. They all left years back and started up companies themselves. I see they've just taken on a couple of new builders at FCS....Carlos Lopez and Kyle Mcmillin. But still demand grows through clever marketing and myth creating. The difference between team built and masterbuilt is marginal. The relic work is often more detailed but beyond that you're paying for not a whole lot else....but if you've nothing better to do with your money then go ahead...make your dealers day....whats the dealer profit on a £6499....£2k+?
 

stonevibe

Thing is you can pay whatever you want for a guitar. It is your choice.

But can you play it? 

Or should I say, can you play it well?

Maybe.

Or maybe you like buying expensive guitars?

Just saying.

RiftAmps

ICBM said:

RiftAmps said:

I disagree.

I like to go to Michelin-starred restaurants and try their à la carte menus. The Fat Duck (Heston) is widely different from Royal Hospital Road (Ramsey), and The Yew Tree (Marco). I don't go to these restaurants because I want the same food everywhere, I go because I want to choose who cooks my food and who puts their signature on it.

The option of choosing which luthier builds your guitar to your chosen spec is EXACTLY what the Custom Shop is all about, it's the entire reason for their existence, and why SME owners, Baby-Boomers, and Hedge Fund Managers pull out their credit cards.

Of course, ordering a guitar from the Custom Shop isn't mandatory but for those who want to, the option is there.

I'd maybe agree with you about the small number of CS guitars that are *true* custom jobs. However the vast majority are simply assemblies of off-the-shelf components in combinations that Fender don't happen to make as standard production models... to use your analogy it's like caring about which chef runs the kitchen at Wetherspoons.

Once again I disagree, to further my analogy...

Give both myself and Marco Pierre White the same set of ingredients from Tescos and we both know who's will taste better. The top luthiers at the CS are there because they are at the top of their game, not because they were hired from a Temp agency. Rich folk buy into that, regardless if you would.

BTW, if Michele Roux Jr ran a Weatherspoons kitchen, it'd be brilliant.

GoldenEraGuitars

Fully agree @Strat54 . The fact that they don’t actually make or paint the basics themselves voids the price tag for me. I’m not having a pop at fender, but those big price tags.... wow. Still, it’s their business and if the high end stuff continues to sell who are we to question it? A company that size also has running costs on an astronomical scale compared to the likes of me. Someone has to pay for it. 

guitars4you

Strat54 said:

£6499 for a Masterbuilt guitar -.whats the dealer profit on a £6499....£2k+?
 

2k Profit - I wish

VAT is 1K 

guitars4you

Another issue to mention is the daily cost of a £3500 Custom Shop - Granted you need the £3500 in the first place to buy it - But keep it 5 years and it will have cost you less than £2 a day - Less than a pint or a Costa coffee - And if you decide it sell it after 5 years you'd get back in excess of £2000 - On that basis that now equates to 82p a day - So is either 82p a day or £2 a day expensive ????

Keep it longer than 5 years and the daily cost is reduced - Granted sell it 2 months or 12 months later and daily costs will have increased

Bridgehouse

guitars4you said:

Another issue to mention is the dail cost of a £3500 Custom Shop - Granted you need the £3500 in the first place to buy it - But keep it 5 years and it will have cost you less than £2 a day - Less than a pint or a Costa coffee - And if you decide it sell it after 5 years you'd get back in excess of £2000 - On that basis that now equates to 82p a day - So is either 82p a day or £2 a day expensive ????

Keep it longer than 5 years and the daily cost is reduced - Granted sell it 2 months or 12 months later and daily costs will have increased

You’ve made the odd assumption that people on here keep Guitars for longer than about a week

guitars4you

Bridgehouse said:

guitars4you said:

Another issue to mention is the daily cost of a £3500 Custom Shop - Granted you need the £3500 in the first place to buy it - But keep it 5 years and it will have cost you less than £2 a day - Less than a pint or a Costa coffee - And if you decide it sell it after 5 years you'd get back in excess of £2000 - On that basis that now equates to 82p a day - So is either 82p a day or £2 a day expensive ????

Keep it longer than 5 years and the daily cost is reduced - Granted sell it 2 months or 12 months later and daily costs will have increased

You’ve made the odd assumption that people on here keep Guitars for longer than about a week

I was thinking exactly the same as I typed the above - Equally I've seen both sides in that many have kept their guitar for many years - I suppose those who buy/change regularly keep the guitar business going - Buy 1 guitar and keep it 20 years and no dealer or vat office benefits much

p90fool

RiftAmps said:

ICBM said:

RiftAmps said:

I disagree.

I like to go to Michelin-starred restaurants and try their à la carte menus. The Fat Duck (Heston) is widely different from Royal Hospital Road (Ramsey), and The Yew Tree (Marco). I don't go to these restaurants because I want the same food everywhere, I go because I want to choose who cooks my food and who puts their signature on it.

The option of choosing which luthier builds your guitar to your chosen spec is EXACTLY what the Custom Shop is all about, it's the entire reason for their existence, and why SME owners, Baby-Boomers, and Hedge Fund Managers pull out their credit cards.

Of course, ordering a guitar from the Custom Shop isn't mandatory but for those who want to, the option is there.

I'd maybe agree with you about the small number of CS guitars that are *true* custom jobs. However the vast majority are simply assemblies of off-the-shelf components in combinations that Fender don't happen to make as standard production models... to use your analogy it's like caring about which chef runs the kitchen at Wetherspoons.

Once again I disagree, to further my analogy...

Give both myself and Marco Pierre White the same set of ingredients from Tescos and we both know who's will taste better. The top luthiers at the CS are there because they are at the top of their game, not because they were hired from a Temp agency. Rich folk buy into that, regardless if you would.

BTW, if Michele Roux Jr ran a Weatherspoons kitchen, it'd be brilliant.

I could teach Marco Pierre White or some dullard from the 'Spoons to bolt the two halves of a Telecaster together in about four minutes. 

Unless you want some silly outlandish finish, Fender guitars are neither haute cuisine or "luthiery". 

Nikc

Fender custom shop prices are highly amusing - these guitars are mass produced cnc machined designed to be inexpensive and cheap to manufacture - just get a MIM, decent set up and mod it to suit. Keep it for 5 years and bet it costs you about 30p a day without having to sell it  

Blueingreen

From my admittedly non-scientific impression of the market the spike in guitar prices isn't confined to Fender Custom Shop: if anything Gibson prices seem to have jumped even more, and I suspect most high end manufacturers have fallen into line.

It's pretty much killed my GAS because I'm just not seeing value for money anywhere.

meltedbuzzbox

p90fool said:

RiftAmps said:

ICBM said:

RiftAmps said:

I disagree.

I like to go to Michelin-starred restaurants and try their à la carte menus. The Fat Duck (Heston) is widely different from Royal Hospital Road (Ramsey), and The Yew Tree (Marco). I don't go to these restaurants because I want the same food everywhere, I go because I want to choose who cooks my food and who puts their signature on it.

The option of choosing which luthier builds your guitar to your chosen spec is EXACTLY what the Custom Shop is all about, it's the entire reason for their existence, and why SME owners, Baby-Boomers, and Hedge Fund Managers pull out their credit cards.

Of course, ordering a guitar from the Custom Shop isn't mandatory but for those who want to, the option is there.

I'd maybe agree with you about the small number of CS guitars that are *true* custom jobs. However the vast majority are simply assemblies of off-the-shelf components in combinations that Fender don't happen to make as standard production models... to use your analogy it's like caring about which chef runs the kitchen at Wetherspoons.

Once again I disagree, to further my analogy...

Give both myself and Marco Pierre White the same set of ingredients from Tescos and we both know who's will taste better. The top luthiers at the CS are there because they are at the top of their game, not because they were hired from a Temp agency. Rich folk buy into that, regardless if you would.

BTW, if Michele Roux Jr ran a Weatherspoons kitchen, it'd be brilliant.

I could teach Marco Pierre White or some dullard from the 'Spoons to bolt the two halves of a Telecaster together in about four minutes. 

Unless you want some silly outlandish finish, Fender guitars are neither haute cuisine or "luthiery". 

So a CNC'd gibson/suhr/godin/anderson/esp/name anything mass produced guitar is any different how?

I don't understand why people moan about bolt on guitars like fenders but don't say shit about suhr/Anderson and the rest.
Even a Gibson les Paul is a lot of cnc with a shitty glue join for the neck to the body but it's ok because they are the pinicle of luthier perfection right?

Echoparks are 10k and they are fucking shocking. Wheres the uproar about them?

dindude

meltedbuzzbox said:

p90fool said:

RiftAmps said:

ICBM said:

RiftAmps said:

I disagree.

I like to go to Michelin-starred restaurants and try their à la carte menus. The Fat Duck (Heston) is widely different from Royal Hospital Road (Ramsey), and The Yew Tree (Marco). I don't go to these restaurants because I want the same food everywhere, I go because I want to choose who cooks my food and who puts their signature on it.

The option of choosing which luthier builds your guitar to your chosen spec is EXACTLY what the Custom Shop is all about, it's the entire reason for their existence, and why SME owners, Baby-Boomers, and Hedge Fund Managers pull out their credit cards.

Of course, ordering a guitar from the Custom Shop isn't mandatory but for those who want to, the option is there.

I'd maybe agree with you about the small number of CS guitars that are *true* custom jobs. However the vast majority are simply assemblies of off-the-shelf components in combinations that Fender don't happen to make as standard production models... to use your analogy it's like caring about which chef runs the kitchen at Wetherspoons.

Once again I disagree, to further my analogy...

Give both myself and Marco Pierre White the same set of ingredients from Tescos and we both know who's will taste better. The top luthiers at the CS are there because they are at the top of their game, not because they were hired from a Temp agency. Rich folk buy into that, regardless if you would.

BTW, if Michele Roux Jr ran a Weatherspoons kitchen, it'd be brilliant.

I could teach Marco Pierre White or some dullard from the 'Spoons to bolt the two halves of a Telecaster together in about four minutes. 

Unless you want some silly outlandish finish, Fender guitars are neither haute cuisine or "luthiery". 

So a CNC'd gibson/suhr/godin/anderson/esp/name anything mass produced guitar is any different how?

I don't understand why people moan about bolt on guitars like fenders but don't say shit about suhr/Anderson and the rest.
Even a Gibson les Paul is a lot of cnc with a shitty glue join for the neck to the body but it's ok because they are the pinicle of luthier perfection right?

Echoparks are 10k and they are fucking shocking. Wheres the uproar about them?

Agree - Fenders were not designed to be cheap shit guitars much to contrary belief, a Gibson has glue instead of bolts, and is probably more forgiving in its tolerances.

mattacjones

I guess the thing is there is a certain level of 'brand value' and you can always get shot of a Fender whereas lesser know, higher quality (maybe) luthier made instruments aren't so easy to move on. To an extent you are paying for that facility

poopot

Strat54 said:

guys like Mike Smith, Joe Dobson, Carson Hess, Marc Rutter, etc etc....and they do actually BUILD your guitar...
 

FTFY.

ThorpyFX

mattacjones said:

I guess the thing is there is a certain level of 'brand value' and you can always get shot of a Fender whereas lesser know, higher quality (maybe) luthier made instruments aren't so easy to move on. To an extent you are paying for that facility

This in spades, my favourite and highest quality guitars are all built by small production run luthiers... they also lose more money than any of the higher end fender and Gibson ones... but they aren’t bought as investments, they are bought for pleasure and if they lose money, it’s only an issue if I sell them. Which I try not too 

p90fool

For me though, it still comes down to how fantastic an electric guitar needs to be  - there is a limit to how much time, expertise and money you can throw at a Telecaster before you are simply no longer getting a better Telecaster. 

You can put every single last detail of your perfect Tele in place for, let's be generous, two grand. You'll get the right woods, great hardware, lovely handwound pickups and a perfect setup. 

Adding four thousand pounds on top of that merely buys you a story to tell, a bit of a warm glow, some bragging rights, and a feeling of being connected somehow to important people in the industry. 

What it doesn't and can't do is buy you a better Telecaster, you already did that four grand ago.

TINMAN82

Nikc said:

Fender custom shop prices are highly amusing - these guitars are mass produced cnc machined designed to be inexpensive and cheap to manufacture - just get a MIM, decent set up and mod it to suit. Keep it for 5 years and bet it costs you about 30p a day without having to sell it  

That’s great if you like generic modern c neck profiles and thick poly finishes (and are planning on a pickup upgrade).

My teambuilt CS 61 strat is the best one I’ve played bar none. Helps that it was a “good” deal at £2.5k new. I wouldn’t pay much more than that for any strat.

ICBM

meltedbuzzbox said:

So a CNC'd gibson/suhr/godin/anderson/esp/name anything mass produced guitar is any different how?

I don't understand why people moan about bolt on guitars like fenders but don't say shit about suhr/Anderson and the rest.
Even a Gibson les Paul is a lot of cnc with a shitty glue join for the neck to the body but it's ok because they are the pinicle of luthier perfection right?

Echoparks are 10k and they are fucking shocking. Wheres the uproar about them?

I certainly never said any of that! I agree with you.

What's an Echopark? Other than a Feeder album...

dindude said:

Fenders were not designed to be cheap shit guitars much to contrary belief, a Gibson has glue instead of bolts, and is probably more forgiving in its tolerances.

They were not designed to be cheap shit - they were designed to be mass-produced by factory workers rather than luthiers.

And you're right, if you've seen inside some Gibson neck joints it makes 70s Fenders look like precision engineering.

guitars4you

A couple of points regarding the CS prices - Suhr and PRS can effectively put the same USA Custom Shop grade into the shops today for around £2300 or less - Granted a gig bag not a case - But a significant reduction - I'm not saying one is better than the other but CS, Suhr and PRS all carry a similar pro end ethos

However the PRS and Suhrs at £2300 ish are spec'd the same - Little variation/options - That saves production time with running one model and can run the spray both in batches - ie sunburst today and LPB tomorrow etc

The large majority of CS Guitars are one offs - I don't order 10 x 62 Strats the same - Different neck profiles, colours less aged to seriously aged etc - Such options will add time and costs to a production line - Won't account for  a £700/800 price differential over a Suhr/PRS but it is an additional point